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Mary Rosenblum
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Hello, everyone. Welcome to our
Professional Connection live interview!
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A literature course in grad
school introduced Dave Manning to Eliot's "Four Quartets" and
poetry, to which he returned after a career in chemistry. His poems, in
many journals and three previous chapbooks, reflect his life as a
scientist, singer, explorer and attendant to the vagaries of the muse.
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David, welcome! I'm so glad
that you could join us!
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patchworkcat
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Hello, guest speaker. Welcome to
our group.
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David Manning
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Hello, I'm very pleased to be
here.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And we're delighted to have
you! I'm curious, David...
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just how did you first become
interested in writing poetry? Seems unusual for a chemistry major.
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David Manning
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Had to take a lit course. I got
hooked on Eliot's 4 Quartets. That did it
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Mary Rosenblum
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Did you just sit down and begin
writing and sending your poetry out? Or did you take courses in it?
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David Manning
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When I saw the power of lines
of words on a page, I was stunned.
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I wrote some poetry, sent some
out, but never got published until about
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40 years later. Recently, I've
attended workshops, no formal courses.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Forty years! I'm impressed with
your dedication. Clearly the power of lines of words on that page REALLY
impacted you!
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David Manning
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I am also a singer. My music
background influences my writing as well.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I find that very
interesting...poetry and music do seem to be related somehow.
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David Manning
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I kept up reading the old
Saturday Review, John Ciardi was the editor. I was
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never published by them, but
got encouraging notes back from Ciardi
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that kept me going.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I would say that letters from
Ciardi would be VERY encouraging! Good for you!
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hedwig
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How did you go from unpublished
to published? What made the difference?
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David Manning
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Ciardi was a fine critic and
poet. Had a radio program until he died. Great guy.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I've heard of him by
reputation, of course.
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David Manning
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When I landed in North Carolina &
got with the poetry society folks here, I entered
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contests and finally had
success. Various people helped me with style and I
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began to have luck in
publishing.
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happybunny
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What in particular impressed you
about the Four Quartets? The style? The theology?
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David Manning
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Both. The mystical quality of
his thought, his images and the lovely lyrical
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passages interspersed.
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joanc
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Do you have a recent publication
and how can we obtain it?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yes, he does, Joan.
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David has a very nice chapbook
out from Longleaf Press:
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It's called The Ice Carver and
you can take a look at it online.
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The Ice Carver
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joanc
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Beautiful lyrics, poetry has a
way of reaching to ones soul.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It does, Joan. I have always
enjoyed it, but write it very rarely and then it is only for myself.
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David, someone asked if your
singing background made you see poetry as something that should be read
aloud. I, too, am curious.
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Words read out loud seem to
have a very different impact than words read on the page.
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David Manning
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Yes, it should be read aloud.
Dylan Thomas' "Fern Hill" is a great poem for
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learning to read, for me any
way. People tell me that my music influences
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my writing, though I've never
been conscious of that. I just do it.
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I like the page and the sound
both. But the page is vital, because a good
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reader can make a bad poem
sound good.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I agree. :-) Been to a number
of readings where that happened...and some where the reverse happened!
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mbvoelker
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What makes publishable poetry? I
have to say that most of what I've seen in the limited selection of
magazines that I'm familiar with seems more like greeting card jingles than
like what I studied in English Lit. Not that greeting card jingles aren't
legitimate writing, but what sort of markets are there for poetry? Does
poetry come in genres with separate marketing targets the way mystery books
or SF books do?
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David Manning
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I always like to look at the
text when I attend a reading.
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Mary Rosenblum
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David, maybe this is a good
time to talk about the poetry scams
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versus legitimate markets?
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David Manning
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We have Quail Ridge Books in Raleigh. They have a
fantastic selections of good
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lit magazines. I look these
over to see what's accessible, what I can learn, what to send my stuff too.
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The greeting card verse is an
entirely different genre.
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Poetry Magazine, published in Chicago, is probably
the best window on the good poetry today.
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Mary Rosenblum
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What about the 'buy this
anthology' contest? Merely a scam?
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David Manning
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The poetry scams are bad news.
I sent to one once & got a 10 pound book with my poem
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on a page with 20 others. Book
cost but the worst thing is that that
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poem was really good, and now
I can't publish it in a decent journal. That's an aspect of the scam
business that you don't often read about.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You sent me a link to a site:
13 warning signs of a bad poetry contest!
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Or something like that.
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13 Warning Signs of a
Bad Poetry Contest
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arfelin
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Where do you get your mystical
thoughts and imagery? I read BUDDHIST PIGEON & CHANSON NOIR--awesome!
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David Manning
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Those are good signs to watch
for. I would also like to recommend "Poet's Market"...
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as a guide to publishing
poems.
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arfelin, you do me honor. The
Pigeon I saw in Wilmington, NC, after reading
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some chapters on Buddhism. The
Lady in Black was an actual person I vaguely knew.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So do most of your poems
originate in real life experiences?
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David Manning
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The real world is rich with
images and strange happenings. The thing to do
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is to keep you radar open and
pick up these things. Jot them down & never throw
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anything in the way of a
beginning poem away. Almost all poets I know say
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the same thing.
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Memory for weird and sometimes
wonderful things are what I use. Yes, Mary, I remember things that seem of
little significance but they stick with me.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Does a little distance help? Do
you tend to write the poem long after the event has happened, or rather
immediately?
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David Manning
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Both, actually. I have my best
luck with these little 3x4 drugstore spiral
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notebooks. For some reason,
writing on 8 x 11 doesn't seem to be as good
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a start. Everyone is different
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hedwig
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In terms of your book. Did you
set out to write a collection of poetry, or did you just write a bunch of
poems and then realize that they might make a good book?
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David Manning
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I've had no luck trying to write
a book around a theme, though that seems the
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most successful route. I write
poems about all sorts of things, then try to fit
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the ones together that have
some commonality.
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Mary Rosenblum
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How long does it take you to
feel that a poem is finished?
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David Manning
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Mary, it varies a lot. Almost
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always the first draft has to
be rewritten. Some killer lines have to be set aside.
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I have taken as long as 40
years finishing poems that were published
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after they were too crude at
first.
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I would also add that critics,
a personal editor, are essential to finishing a poem
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for most of us.
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Mary Rosenblum
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How do you know when a line
'works'?
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David Manning
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Individual words, their
novelty, sounds, associations are vital in poems. After
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writing for awhile, you become
sensitive about not using clichés. When I'm rewriting a poem, I try
different line-breaks. The best music and the most exciting effect tell me
which is best.
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speckledorf
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Do you think that people who
write poetry are more respected than those who write novels?
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David Manning
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No, Speck, I think novelists
are more respected, in America anyway.
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I have a great respect for
story-tellers, novelists. The ability to generate and sustain a long work
seems incredible.
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bud
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Do you have a preference as to rhyming
or non-rhyming poems?
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David Manning
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Bud, I like both. But rhyme is
especially hard, because the rhyming word has to
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be also the best possible word
in other respects.
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Rhyming poetry, incidentally,
is very much back in vogue today.
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Often, workshop teachers will
emphasize form poetry, as a good foundation
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for what's called "free
verse'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have seen more of it lately.
It seemed to be quite out of favor for awhile...and this is a good place to
offer a question submitted to me by email about the issue of poetic form.
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Margery:
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“Understanding that guidelines
vary in poetry magazines but writing first for yourself, if your language
and imagery is rich and unique and your rhythm works, how important are the
rules of poetry?”
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David Manning
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Margery, I don't like to think
of "rules." Am not sure there are any as such.
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I like to see lines that flow
in an easy conversational manner, but with novelty
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of words, avoidance of clichés,
and strong imagery. The favorite advice is
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"show, don't tell."
Maybe that's a good rule. Michael Chitwood, a fine local poet
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also likes to say "what
you leave out is as important as what you put in."
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The secret is to get the core
of the poem out, hard and shining. More is usually
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less. Writing poems is about
condensing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Aha...you lead me neatly to
something of interest to me.
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David Manning
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I'm interested in what
interests you.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I see prose as a continuum that
leads from the sprawling complexity of novel form at one end, through the
much more condensed and refined short story form, to poetry, as perhaps the
most condensed and refined end of the spectrum. What do you think?
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David Manning
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I think that's a good way to
put it, Mary. There's a lot to say about the borderline
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of poetry and prose. Some
folks chop prose up into lines and call it poetry
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but that doesn't work.
Narrative poetry, a southern tradition, has prose elements
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along with the imagery,
metaphor, that makes poems. Then there is the
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so-called prose poem that has
one or more paragraphs, instead of lines, but
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still must be musical, vivid
and compact. I have one prose poem "Gallery Quintet"
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in "The Ice-Carver."
I began it as a class exercise in a workshop. There are the
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themes of the human body and
whiteness that connect the stanzas/paragraphs.
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I could talk too long about
the prose/poetry continuum. But I think it is one
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and a great subject. Mike
Chitwood says that a poem is made of story, structure,
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music and imagination. And the
best poems contain all four.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I read Gallery Quintet. I'm
smiling, because I was thinking as a short story writer, that a very few
more lines of connection would turn that into a rather powerful literary
short short.
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I liked it a lot, by the way.
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David Manning
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I would love to see what you
could do with that!
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arfelin
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I had recently read somewhere
that a good short short is the closest form to poetry.
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David Manning
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I think you are right,
arfelin. A good prose poem and "flash fiction" are, to me, about
the same. Incidentally, there are some great passages of poetry in novels.
One of my favorites is in Steinbeck's "Winter of Our Discontent,"
chapter III, where the speaker is watching his sleeping wife. It's
marvelous and I've read it to our reading group.
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mbvoelker
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I have heard poetry described as
"distilled thought". What do you think of that concept?
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David Manning
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MBvoelker, I like the
distilled part best. Thought, seems to not refer enough
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to the feel of music and
intuition. But I have to agree that in putting it down
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finally on a page, thought is
the editor too. So I'm OK with that.
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arfelin
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Do you prefer free verse? Do you
prefer any particular point of view over another?
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David Manning
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Yes arfelin, I do prefer it,
because it seems most natural, conversational.
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I think I write mostly in
first person, unless I'm writing a comical, lampooning
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poem. What I call my
"Gonzo Voice" then it's 3rd person. I love to write
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poems that have a good
component of testosterone in a 6-pack. Incidentally, there's none of that
stuff in "The Ice-Carver".
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happybunny
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When writing a poem, where do
you begin? With a particular image? A particular line? A thematic goal? And
do you come up with the title first and then write the poem, or write the
poem and then title it?
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David Manning
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I often begin with an
overpowering feeling of insight. Many poets will tell you
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that a musical or word sound
starts the process, but It doesn't work that way
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with me, even though, music
enters my lines naturally. I never begin with a title.
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forest elf
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In high school we read God's
Trombones. Is that real poetry? For example is it narrative poetry ... or a
type of prose?
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David Manning
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I'll have to plead ignorant on
that one. Don't know it!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sorry, Forest. I don't either.
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catydorr
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Do you find European markets for
poetry more open and more likely to pay more than American markets?
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David Manning
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catydorr, I've not yet sent to
a European journal. But in any event, I can't see
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writing poems as a way to make
money. I got $50 a couple of times for
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poems accepted. But that's
rare.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'm chuckling. It's hard enough
to make money writing novels!
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dbamarsha
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Is it necessary to have a theme
to publish a book of poetry?
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David Manning
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dbamarsha--it's the best,
surest way to get a book accepted. Again, let me recommend "Poets
Market," which lists 1800 journals and
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David Manning
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what they publish as the best
guide to submitting.
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Mary Rosenblum
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David, I have a question. Is a
sense of 'you, the poet' a critical component of good poetry, or does the
poet distance himself/herself from the work?
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David Manning
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Mary, I think that one has to
be careful to avoid sentimentality in being in a
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poem. But just enough back,
enough calmness, and the poet in the poem
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can give it a power like no
other.
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Mary Rosenblum
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What do you see as the
strengths of poetry as compared to prose?
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David Manning
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I think that a poem, by its
concentration of novel language, can show, more vividly
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an experience or feeling. That
the core of insisting power of a poem lasts like
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no other.
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galatyne
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I find that while prose opens up
something and draws the reader in, poetry, with its metaphors and patterns,
has to be penetrated and, as a result, can be a valuable tool for
introspection and creating an “Ah ha!” moment for the diligent reader - a
sort of invitation to the "Quest" instead of a retelling of one.
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David Manning
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galatyne--I agree with you. A
poem should draw the reader in so that, in a way
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he becomes part of the
process. I don't like deliberately obscure poems. But poems that have
restraint
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make a reader reread the work.
Become a discoverer after a few readings.
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hedwig
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A lot of poetry editors place
great emphasis on "word choice" and "unique or powerful
language" along with imagery in a poem. Can you say more about
"word choice?"
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David Manning
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hedwig--word choice is perhaps
the most crucial single act in writing a poem.
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Words have great power because
they have so many root associations and
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side-meanings. All I can do is
put it down and look at it a long time. Depend
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on my gut.
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sailor
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I came in late. Did David say
who his favorite poets are and why?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You didn't, did you?
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David Manning
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I’ve got lots of favorites.
Mary Oliver, for her insight into the mortality and beauty
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of nature and the way she
addresses the reader in her poems. William Stafford
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for his gentle genius insight.
There's Gary Snyder, writes about the mountains.
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James Wright, from the
Parkersburgh, WV area, W.S. Merwin, Pablo Neruda.
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And I've got to say the great
Tang Dynasty poets Tu Fu and Li T'ai Po. They
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wrote the most overpoweringly
wonderful poems about simply walking
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along rivers at night. The
individual in nature. So absolutely simple and pure. I recommend Rexroth's
"100 Poems from the Chinese."
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Mary Rosenblum
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David, before we run out of
time, I'd like to hear you speak of 'The Ice-Carver' a bit. I liked that
poem, the title poem, best of the collection, by the way. What does that
title mean to you? And what is the theme that ties those diverse poems
together?
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David Manning
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Mary--when I was in Italy I was awed by
the works of art, created to last
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an eternity. Because those
artists were believers. When I saw the carver
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cutting a falcon out of an ice
block before blasé tourists, I thought of how sad
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it is that we don't believe in
lasting things anymore.
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It was a powerful metaphor of
the change in worldview and of something lost.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I found it a powerful metaphor
and one that I pursue often in my short fiction. :-)
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Is there a relationship between
the title and the cover photo of the three birds?
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David Manning
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I think the connecting theme
is one of searching for lasting things in a world
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in which I very much believe
in science. What does science leave for faith?
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Is everything in a poem, say,
ultimately reducible to matter? I hope not, but wonder.
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And know I will never know.
And in a strange way, I am beginning to become
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D
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pretty comfortable with that
dichotomy.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You'd make a good Science
Fiction writer, David. :-) Have you published other collections?
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hedwig
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For me, The Ice-Carver (the
image) reminds me of the Buddhist. Lasting=illusion.
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David Manning
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Mary, I have a little chapbook
about critters and strange plants--crows,
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possums etc. Then I have one
about strange characters "Poets Anonymous."
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That one is my tough-guy voice
in parts. "Out After Dark" is kind of like the Ice-Carver in many
ways.
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Nighttime is the background
there.
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Yes--I think I am looking for
the world of samsara in Buddhist terminology.
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I have some copies. Also
Pudding House Press in Ohio has the main stash.
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I can supply a few.. The cover
is fantastic--a work of art those guys did.
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Mary Rosenblum
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One last question, then I'm
going to ask for your help in giving someone in the audience a copy of Ice
Carver. And do you have a way for people to contact you who want to buy
your other collections?
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David Manning
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Easiest way is by e-mail. dbtm@mindspring.com
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I can supply a few copies of
The Ice-Carver at $6.50, which includes postage.
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I assume that Longleaf Press
has a large supply. Longleaf Press
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joanc
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David I can see how you are a
wonderful poet. What you just said is poetry in motion.
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David Manning
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Joan--you are most gracious
and I thank you.
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Mary Rosenblum
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We have all enjoyed our
conversation with you!
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Technology happens or not!
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David Manning
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Mary, I truly enjoyed this and
felt close to those with their questions.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you'll choose a number
between one and nineteen, I'll give a copy of your book to someone in the
audience.
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David Manning
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How about lucky 11 ?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, Joan!
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Congratulations, and he
couldn't see into the auditorium, honest!
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David Manning
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Wow! I didn't know I was
psychic. My congratulations too, Joan.
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arfelin
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It was a treat to have a poet
here. Thanks Mary and Thanks David for joining us!
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janp
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David, you were a very engaging
guest. Thank you and I don't even write poetry.
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hedwig
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David, as your assistant editor,
working with you on this collection, I think you did a wonderful job on the
chat tonight! Thank you!
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Mary Rosenblum
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You did, David. You have been a
delightful guest!
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Thank you so much for coming.
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David Manning
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Thank you hedwig and Lynda, I
recognize and greet you too.
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bud
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Thanks Mary for bringing us
another great guest and thank you David for coming.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It was a very nice evening!
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David Manning
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It's been a pure pleasure for
me!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I really enjoyed your
collection by the way. Poetry either works for me or it does not, and yours
did.
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David Manning
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Thank you bud!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I think your ice-carver poem
has sparked a story for me, so thank you for that.
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David Manning
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Mary, I hope too see what you
write from it. I know it will be good
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Mary Rosenblum
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Thank you for coming tonight,
David. We'll let you go now!
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David Manning
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I will look forward to it. And
hope to meet you sometime--maybe in Oregon.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It has been fun.
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David Manning
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Thanks, All, and goodnight.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Goodnight!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Thank you for coming, all!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Have a good evening all! Thanks
for coming!
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