|
mary rosenblum
|
Hello all!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I hope you had a good weekend
and are enjoying this summer week.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I had a request from a website
regular to talk about how to end stories...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
for a Friday Forum, so I'm
going to do a series here...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
beginnings today, ends on
Friday, and middles on next Tuesdays.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Then we'll have covered the
entire story end to end. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And, to be honest, most of my
students and most of the novice writers I work with in workshops have
trouble with beginnings...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
mostly by beginning in the
wrong place. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I have to say that I had
published several short stories in Asimov's Magazine before I finally began
to write stories...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
where I didn't go back during
revision and chop off the first few pages!
|
|
wolf122
|
Good afternoon Mary.
Question--my gopher readers state that my beginnings are too stiff and
almost cinematic for the first page, but then flows fine afterwards. Any
tips for the first three paragraphs?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Try just cutting them off,
wolf.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You are probably doing what
most novice short story writers attempt to do...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
which is to use a novel start.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And to set the scene,
introduce the characters before your plot begins.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That doesn't work well in
short story form.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Readers really do have
different expectations from short stories than they do from novels.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You are nearly always better
off to begin with the plot if you can.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you are writing a long
short story... 7000 - 10,000 words, then you have a bit more leeway...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but for a story under 5000
words, I'd REALLY try to start with a plot element and fill in backstory as
you go.
|
|
wolf122
|
So, cut those paragraphs and
sprinkle them in as backstory?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Exactly wolf.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Readers are willing to take
off at a gallop with you and fill in details as you go.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Beginnings SHOULD take you a
lot of creative sweat.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
They are important, not
something to dash off and ignore.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Let's talk about a short story
start first, and then I'll talk about novel starts.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The best way to decide where
your story actually begins....and that may be something you do AFTER you
finish the first draft...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
look over your story. Where
does the MC take the first irrevocable step toward the end of your plot?
Where can he/she no longer turn aside?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That may be a page or more
into your story!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Yeah, all the backstory as we
tour the village and meet the family is nice...but essentially will bore
readers right out of your story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
OR...if your action is
compelling, mislead them about where your story goes.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Readers expect authors to give
them important clues in the opening, so they are hyper vigilant about
making guesses.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If they guess wrong, then you
violate their expectations.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Find your first plot
element...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
this is the first thing that
happens in your story that MUST happen in order to complete the story as
you have planned.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Your MC, for example, might
have a rousing fight with a dragon and nearly get killed, but it's not
until he has ridden over the hill and into the next valley to find...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
a magic artifact that the
story begins.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Spending too much time with
that dragon fight may well seriously mislead your readers.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You'd be better off to start
with him leading his limping horse into the valley after the fight, to
stumble over that magic.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Hurst to cut out that lovely
dragon scene....but...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
you do that. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The story is more important
than the scene.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Just save it and use it in
another story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
OR....the other very common
start...and maybe what you're doing wolf...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
is to show the reader the
world.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The author gives us a
descriptive narrative about the place, the people, who they are, what is
happening and THEN gets into the plot.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Not compelling. You're going
to lose your browsing readers right there unless you snag them with
something.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And the other common start is
to begin with a really strong hook line. The MC plunges the daggar into the
huge serpent's throat....
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and then instantly falls into
a long reverie about how she ended up on this quest, who she is, where she
is going...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and a page later, she finally
pulls that daggar out of the snake.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Noooot a good way to do it.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Makes readers giggle.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
A hook is not really enough on
its own.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It won't fix a slow, narrative
start.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
In short fiction, do your best
to begin with the plot in motion.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And of course, if you're
writing an alternative universe...SF, fantasy, or just an unusual
real-world environment (Bangladesh, for example)...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
you're going to have to really
sweat in order to set the scene as that plot element unfolds.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's what makes the
beginning work. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Work as in lots of effort on
your part.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But realize....
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
readers do NOT have to know
everything before the story starts.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That is a very common beginner
mistake.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We HAVE to know only what
makes THIS action comprehensible.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We don't have to know WHY yet.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Show us action, then begin to
fill in backstory.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Where is this happening? Why
is this happening? (and you can answer this fairly late in the scene), who
is our MC...those questions.
|
|
jackie7777
|
Can my beginning be my ending
and I work my way back?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Yes, you can do that jackie.
I've seen some good examples of that...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but realize that it is hard to
pull off.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I've seen it in some mystery,
where we begin with the bad guy clearly about to kill the MC...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
then return to the beginning
of the story and finally end beyond that original beginning as the MC
manages to defeat the bad guy.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
BUT...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
it's easy to totally remove
any suspense when doing this type of construction.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So you have to have something
else that compells the reader.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Most people stop reading if
they flip ahead to read the end. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So you have to counterbalance
that with something that keeps the reader reading anyway.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It might be a very complex and
intellectual plot puzzle....how did the MC figure it out?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
People don't read Sherlock
Holmes to find out if he survived...we all know he's going to...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but we read it to enjoy the
details of how he solves the crime.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Remember...whatever you do has
to serve the story first.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's not enough to say 'Isn't
this a cool new way to do it?"
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's only cool if the story is
BETTER for being told this way rather than in a more traditional form.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And of course, you need to do
way more in a novel opening.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can certainly begin a
novel like you do a short story...with an ongoing plot element.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I tend to do that, simply
because I write so much short fiction.
|
|
tolkienlvr
|
Mary, I was a bit late today, so
you may have already answered this. If not: Can you liks the ESSENTIAL
story building blocks that should usually be included in any first chapter
of a novel. Obviously the HOOK, but are there other "Always include this"
things?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Yes, tolkien, there are some
essentials to include in that first chapter.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Who matters here.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Where and when are we?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
What is the problem?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
What is going on around us?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You need to answer all those
questions in a short story, too, of course...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but you can weave them into
the first third of your story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Generally, the first chapter
of a novel answers these questions...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and in many novels, the first
plot element doesn't occur until the end of the first chapter.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Now that does NOT mean you
have license to bore your readers with fifteen pages of droning
narrative...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
about the history of your main
character and her family!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Of go on and on at
excruciating length about the flora, fauna, and ecology of your fantasy or
SF world.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You definitly need that hook,
remember?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You need to snag your browsers
with a compelling character and interesting action in that first novel
chapter.
|
|
lore alley
|
Mary, should you have this all
figured out when you "begin" the story - I mean when you first
have that initial spark of idea and sit down to start your first draft?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Not at this stage of your
creative life, lore.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
While I can look at a story as
a whole...big or small...and figure out where I need to begin...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
that comes from a lot of
experience. I couldn't do that when I started out...not even after I was
publishing.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Decide on your beginning after
you have written the first draft.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Think of it this way...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
if you're making a piece of
clothing, better to cut the pattern out on the large size...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and trim it down if it's too
big, rather than find out it's too small and you have no extra fabric.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
When you have finished your
draft, think about your story for awhile...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
where does it actually get
rolling? Where is that character propelled to your end?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
At what point can he not turn
back?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
For those of you who end up
coming in late to the Forums, don't forget that I post the transcripts
afterward...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
in Writing Craft: Forum
Transcripts
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
fiction_scribe
|
I was a little late as I had
trouble finding the right room
|
|
fiction_scribe
|
maybe missed this ans, but word
count for first chapter?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Ah, good question and I'm
going to give you a very frustrating answer.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
There IS no hard and fast rule
about chapter length...at least not for adult and much YA fiction.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Generally, the younger your
readers the shorter the chapters need to be...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but it's a matter of finding
YOUR rhythms.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Generally, chapters end at
scene breaks, although you can leave the reader hanging at a dramatic
point.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you naturally tend to write
scenes that are about five pages long..
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
your chapters may be ten or
fifteen pages in length...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
if you write 15 page scenes,
you may do fifteen page chapters and limit it to one scene...or do long, 30
page chapters.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Shorter chapters give readers
a good place to break and make that peanut butter sandwich.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's easier to pick up the
story at the chapter...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
since you of course will build
in a nice transition there to remind the reader what is going on. :-)
|
|
gwanny
|
How do you feel about opening
with dialogue, either in short or novel length?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
A dialogue opening is
generally a VERY strong opening, gwanny.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We are all eavesdroppers at
heart and it's HARD to put the book aside in the middle of a conversation.
We want to finish it.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
BUT...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
some of the most boring
openings I know are when writers begin with a long...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
dialogue and NO VISUALS.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Do not do this.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We really need to see the
scene as well as hear voices echoing in our heads.
|
|
fiction_scribe
|
by page do you mean 8x11 double
space (for clarification)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Yes...and btw, that translates
pretty much one to one for most mass market paperbacks.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
An example of visual and
dialogue, gwanny?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"I can't get there
tomorrow." Daren paced the length of the livingroom, the phone tucked
against his shoulder. "Wednesday at the earliest."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"Tomorrow." The
voice on the line was full of threat. Daren wiped his face, took a deep
breath. "Look, I'll catch the red eye. It's the best I can do."
He glared at the painting on the wall...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
hating the soft pastel
landscape. Damn hotel art. "If you don't like it, shoot me,"
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"We just might do
that." The line went dead.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We don't know a LOT about
where we are, but we're in a hotel room and our POV is on the phone and
under stress...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
as we see from his sweating as
well as hearing from his conversation.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If I had simply given you the
coversation. :
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"I can't get there
tomorrow. Wednesday at the earliest."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"Tomorrow."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"Look I'll catch the red
eye. It's the best I can do. If you don't like it, shoot me."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"We just might do
that."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Compare the two starts.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The visuals make the scene
real. Otherwise, we simply hear voices and we don't see a thing.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
YOu can do a couple or three
lines of stripped dialogue like this, but then I'd sure start adding some
visuals.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We have all the dramatic
tension of the conversation...threat and violence implied here will hook
our attention...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but we also see where we are.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Now boring dialogue is not
necessarily a good start!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You need to pique the readers'
interest!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"Hello, how are
you?" Emily sat down at the tea table.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"I'm fine." Anne
poured, handed Emily a flowered cup. "Sugar?"
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"Please. And cream, too,
thank you."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"The scones are lovely
today. Currant."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"Oh dear." Emily
patted her waistline. "I really shouldn't."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"Oh, come on. We only
meet for tea once a month."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
"You're right. I suppose
I will have one." She took one of the crusty scones. "And pass
the clotted cream, too, please. I might as well be truely bad."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Okay, this is a dialogue...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but as a reader I've just
about run out of patience here...unless something snags my interest pretty
quick...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and implies a story to come, I
may move on to the next book on the shelf.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
ALL dialogue is not equal. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Now if Emily breathlessly asks
if Anne has heard the news...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'll keep reading because I
want to find out what the news is...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and this slow conversation
suddenly promises a payoff at the end!
|
|
tlareeves
|
How about opening with a
flashback, incl. dialogue and actio
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
TL, that is something that can
work, but has a bunch of caveats attached. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Why do you need the flashback?
Why not start with THAT scene and then transition forward across boring
time?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Now you may have good reasons
to do this.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But DO have good reasons! :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The risks in opening with a
flashback are that your reader...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
does not yet have THIS story
fixed in his/her mind yet.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
When you take us back to the
flashback when/where...we think of that when/where as THE story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
it's automatic.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So when you leap forward again
after the flashback you DO jolt the reader...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and now we have to forget what
we figured out about this story and start all over again at THIS
where/when.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you have a good reason to
do it that way, then you simply accept the fact that the jolt will cost you
reader pleasure and a few readers who'll quit there...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but probably not many.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But don't do it just to 'be
cute'. You'll do more harm to your story than good.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Often, that flashback will be
less of a jolt if it comes in later, after we have established ourselves in
this story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And lord help you if you
flashback and your readers fall in love with a vivid character in that
beginning flashback...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
who isn't important in the
main story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Big disappointment.
|
|
fiction_scribe
|
how about mid. plot timeline
opening every other chap flashb
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Try typing /ask in front of
your question, fiction, so that you don't have to use shorthand to get it
all in the box. :-)
|
|
fiction_scribe
|
/ask how about middle of the
plot timeline opening with ever
|
|
fiction_scribe
|
other chapter a flash back
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Ah, thank you.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, I think what you'd be
better off doing here is to use a parallel plot construction...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
tell two converging stories
simultaneously, converging on the climax.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Would that work?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
One chapter is now, the next
chapter is in the past...and they come together in the final scenes?
|
|
seigfried007
|
if you have an in-depth sci-fi
world based on an alternate history of Earth with odd races and cities that
don't exist here, do you have a glossary or do you just plop readers into
your world and hope the confusion settles?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Neither, seig.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I do this all the time
remember? :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And I'm good at it.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Yes, you DO plop the reader
into the middle of the story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but you are VERY careful not
to let that reader flounder.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You create a scen3e.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
scene...where the MC manages
to reveal all the things the reader needs to know for that scene to make
sense...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and no, you can't give your
reader ALL the history/backstory of this world...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but you can certainly give
him/her a lot of glimpses through actions/dialogue.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You'll have to show more
details/backstory in other stories set in the same universe...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
or in the novel. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you're doing a novel, of
course you have tons of time to get those details of history and ecology
and species to your readers..
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
as your plot begins to unfold.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
SF and fantasy starts ARE hard
because you have to decide what the reader MUST know in order for this
scene to make sense and leave out all the other million and one details.
|
|
fiction_scribe
|
maybe - one is story of how
murder happened, other is the solving
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That could be quite cool,
fiction, if you can make the timing work.
|
|
seigfried007
|
I have enough backstory for
these characters/this world that i'd like to write a prequel.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's a good thing, seig. :-)
Tor liked the backstory for my latest novel so much that they want a series
using this universe. Lots of details left out are just fine! :-)
|
|
seigfried007
|
my test readers wanted to know
the races and their problems right off the bat, and i have no idea how to
do some of these things without just writing a list of definitions
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Sometimes you can't.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Just feed them the details
fairly quickly as you get into the story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You may have to reinvent your
opening to give more details more quickly than your current plot line
delivers.
|
|
gwanny
|
assuming that the beginning of
the novel is the first third of the story, do you answer the 5 W's and the
H? Cover it all in the begining?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You need to answer all these
questions BEFORE your climax in a short story, gwanny.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
By the time you get to the
climax of the story, the reader needs to be able to concentrate on th story
rather than on figuring out what is going on.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's going to vary with the
story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
In a novel, it's a more
complex landscape...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and you have subplots that
will surely expand your Who, what, where, when, and why issues.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So you are constantly
enriching your story...but again...go into that climax with questions
answered or you'll distract readers from the peak of your story,.
|
|
seigfried007
|
oh, off-topic, but what is the
difference between complex and over-complicated with novels?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
To over simplify a
bit...complex is interesting and over-complicated is confusing. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
What's the difference between
'sweet' and 'too sweet'?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Realize that one person's
complex is another person's 'over complicated'.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You cannot cannot cannot (one
of those rare absolutes) please ALL readers.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Essentially, if it works for
most people fine.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I have a very dear friend,
another SF writer, who simply has a different take on fiction. I don't
think he has EVER 'gotten' one of my stories. He simply misses what I'm
doing. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But you know what? I'm not
writing for him!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'm writing for the many many
people who DO 'get' my stories. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you give your novel to say,
five readers...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and all five of them come back
with questions about your plot...they weren't sure what happened or why or
when...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
then you have created
something thats confusing and you need to fix it.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If maybe one of them found it
confusing but the rest had no trouble following it, don't worry about it.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Generally...even with
practice...we are our own worst objective critics!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I depend a lot on my readers
and my editor to find the weak points I missed.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We know our worlds FAR too
well.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The main thing to work on with
beginnings...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
is that tendency to want to
tell all that cool backstory to the reader...to introduce the story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Fight it!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's generally a very slow
start and the reader really does NOT need it...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
if you weave those details
into that opening scene.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Readers are very happy to
collect those pretty puzzle pieces and put the picture together for
themselves.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and today
we're talking about beginnings. If you're new here, remember that you need
to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red
question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in
order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you can, begin with the
plot in motion for a short story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can take more time to set
the world up in a novel, as long as you make that set-up compelling and not
an encyclopedia entry!
|
|
speckledorf
|
Is there a right time to start
with a "weather report"?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It was a dark and stormy night
is SUCH a classic cliche that weather reports as an opening are VERY
iffy...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
although I suppose that
'Hurricane Elma came ashore at midnight' might not be bad. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But even here...I suspect you
could do better with a strong visual.
|
|
gwanny
|
what about for a non fiction
article? How do you recommend one begins?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That depends entirely on the
type of nonfiction piece you are writing, gwanny.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
There are many types of
nonfiction.
|
|
marina
|
Can I go back to the short story
beginnings? (I'm wroking on assg. 2) Do I begin with the first plot
elelment? With the first place that the MC can't "turn back"?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I would, marina.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Start with something
happening...that plot element...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and weave in the details of
who, when, where, why as it unfolds.
|
|
seigfried007
|
i think my problem is in part
because i started off the action from a neurotic POV ;-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, if it's in first person,
yeah you're VERY limited. That's what makes first so problematic at times.
|
|
seigfried007
|
are other people allowed to post
bits of work for critique?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, we're almost done here,
today, but I'll do a writers workshop on 'beginnings' in the next couple of
weeks...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and you can submit starts for
that. How's that?
|
|
seigfried007
|
third person limited
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
IN third person you should be
able to engineer enough explanatory events to give your readers a sense of
what is going on.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Just don't try to answer all
questions at once.
|
|
marina
|
I'm having trouble
distinguishing between 1st plot element and the climax...maybe. Beginners'
problems.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
First plot element is where
the character does something that leads directly to the plot.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
For example...our MC might go
to her job at the zoo, clean the lion cages, feed the monkeys...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but when she finds the dead
keeper in the tiger pen...THAT is the first plot element.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The climax is when she is
trapped in the deserted zoo late at night by the killer.
|
|
tolkienlvr
|
Mary, can you remind me what a
"writers workshop" entails with LR?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Oh sure. I haven't done one
for awhile, tolkien, so it's time. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I invite people to either send
by email or cut and paste here..examples they want critiqued...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
say an opening paragraph...a
scene...something like that.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'ts kind of limited...the
chat site can't handle entire chapters, for example...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but we've used it to look at
examples of show, don't tell...beginnings...narrative distance and the
like.
|
|
roe
|
what if you start with MC's
observation of the weather. something like Marla hated storms, but a big
one looked like a big one headed her way. The black sky and streaks of
lightening sent shivers up her spine.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Oops...meant to edit out your
extra 'big one'.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Got distracted, apologies.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can do that. If it works
for the start of the story that's fine..but if the main plot
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
deals with the storm and
events that occur during it...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
you might be much better off
to begin with something crashing through the front window, or slamming
against the closed storm shutters...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
with Marla doing whatever as
the wind shakes the house.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You're beginning here BEFORE
the storm.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If the main plot takes place
under the threat of the storm, this is maybe the right place.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If the main plot takes place
during the storm, it's probably too early.
|
|
seigfried007
|
How long is a chapter supposed
to be? most of mine are thirty-something.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Up to you for adult fiction,
seig.
|
|
fiction_scribe
|
Going back to plot elements,
what about starting with the first one on the first page
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
First paragraph is best,
marina.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Sheila slammed the door and
leaned against it, panting. This time, he had followed her all the way
home.
|
|
seigfried007
|
where are we supposed to send
stuff for the workshop?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Seig, I announce them in the
website updates...the ones that give you the topic for the forums...and you
can reply with your piece cut and pasted into the email.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Marina, that start is the
first plot element and it opens the story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
in the next paragraph, I'd be
sure to let the reader figure out who followed her home and where/when we
are.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you can start with drama
like that it makes for a very strong start.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Who is going to quit reading
now?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, this has been another
fun, Oregon hour. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
On Friday, I'll be talking
about endings...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
which come from
beginnings...or should...which is why a lot of folk have trouble with 'em.
:-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'll post the transcripts in
Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.
|