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mary rosenblum
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Hello all!
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mary rosenblum
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Welcome to our Friday After
Hours.
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mary rosenblum
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I sure hope you're cooler than
we are!
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mary rosenblum
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Here in the cool, cloudy,
rainy Pacific Northwest we are at 105 F.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm sure this breaks some
record or other. I can't remember anything this hot in the last 25 years or
so.
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mary rosenblum
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Who has air conditioning here?
We don't need it. :-}
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geezer
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106, Mary
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, but you're not in a part
of the country that doesn't HAVE hot weather! We're just spoiled. And
whining en masse. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Anyway, weather gripes aside
(and I'm actually quite comfortable in my passive solar house...it stays
cool)
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mary rosenblum
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this IS our Friday After Hours
Forum. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about matching
stories to characters. And vice versa! I've published seven novels (number
eight will be out in November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my
best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that
you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a
question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and
type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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gskearney
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Ha, ha, 82. Nebraska stole your
weather, Mary. Rained all morning then cool and sunny. --gk
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mary rosenblum
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Okay Gary, give it back!!!
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about
character and story...their relationship.
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mary rosenblum
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It's pretty common when you're
starting out to just come up with a character and a plot and not really
think much about how one relates to the other.
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mary rosenblum
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You just take this character
and drop him or her into that plot and let the games begin!
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mary rosenblum
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And that can work fine...be a
fun exploration as your character explores the story and deals with the
issues you throw in his/her path.
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mary rosenblum
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Nothing wrong with doing it
that way, as long as you're willing to alter your plot when necessary.
Sometimes you'll find that your character simply would not do...
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mary rosenblum
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something you need to have him
or her do to make your plot work.
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mary rosenblum
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But if you're in the throes of
creating a story and you don't have your characters cast in stone yet...
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mary rosenblum
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think about what you need for
that story in terms of character.
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mary rosenblum
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The right character for the
story can take something that is 'ho hum' and give it enormous power.
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beausdad
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which should come first
Caharacter or story?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, that's sort of a
chicken/egg question, dad.
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mary rosenblum
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Either one can come
first...they can come together.
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mary rosenblum
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Often I come up with an
interesting character.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll then try to find a story
that will make use of my character to the greatest degree possible...
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mary rosenblum
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playing to that character's
strengths and flaws.
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mary rosenblum
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Other times, I will come up
with a plot and then I will think up characters who have particular
strengths and weaknesses...
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mary rosenblum
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that will cause the most
interesting interaction with the plot.
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mary rosenblum
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And other times, character and
plot sort of leap into being together. (My current novel started that way).
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lore alley
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so if you have a
less-than-powerful plot but a riveting character, the story can work?
that's encouraging for me, if so... :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Of course, lore. :-) Most of
my early short fiction -- which has gotten excellent reviews most of the
time -- has a weak plot. It's strength comes from the character
interactions.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm much better at balancing
character and plot now.
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mary rosenblum
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It can work the other way,
too.
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mary rosenblum
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If you have a dynamite
plot...say a cool O'Henry ending or something like that...
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mary rosenblum
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then well drawn characters
that aren't really very deep may work just fine.
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mary rosenblum
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But a weak plot with weak
characters won't get you anywhere.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about matching
stories to characters. And vice versa! I've published seven novels (number
eight will be out in November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my
best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that
you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a
question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and
type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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So it's a good idea, if you
can do it, to think about characters and plot when you're first setting up
a story.
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mary rosenblum
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It's much more important in
novel form than short fiction, by the way.
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mary rosenblum
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If your characters work
strongly with your plot, you
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mary rosenblum
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you'll have a much easier time
keeping that story going strongly all the way through.
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mary rosenblum
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You may not even experience
the 'desert of the middle' slow down that plagues a lot of novelists.
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mary rosenblum
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So what do you consider when
you're weighing plot and characters?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, if you have thought up a
really neat character or two and want to give them a story...
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mary rosenblum
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think for a bit about who they
are.
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mary rosenblum
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What do they do well? What
will give them fits, cause them to lose their tempers, struggle, and sweat?
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mary rosenblum
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See if you can come up with a
plot that specifically causes them troubles.
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mary rosenblum
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Let's look at something that
has been published.
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robastor
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I working on a story where I
going through all this. What I really need is a place to look for
information about Japanese cultures; specifically from a person's point of
view that's teenaged to early twenties in age. Any suggestions? :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Contemporary, rob?
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mary rosenblum
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Or historical?
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robastor
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Anything will help at this
point.
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mary rosenblum
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Well for contemporary I
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mary rosenblum
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I'd start with Manga and
Anime.
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mary rosenblum
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That's what is READ by
contemporary Japanese teens and early twenties.
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mary rosenblum
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Then I'd go looking for
anything written by someone of that age group (might be hard) or anything
written by...
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mary rosenblum
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someone within the culture
with a main character of that age.
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mary rosenblum
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And finally, try the
anthroplological journals, cultural journals.
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mary rosenblum
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You have to read it all and
kind of 'triangulate' on what seems to be similar in various sources.
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mary rosenblum
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When you're looking for
cultural attitudes, you really do need to read widely.
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mary rosenblum
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One person's lecture on 'what
teens think' can be very off base. :-) You just don't know.
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mary rosenblum
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In terms of story...
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mary rosenblum
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If you have a plot, think
about it.
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mary rosenblum
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What character will make the
most of the situation in terms of what might happen?
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mary rosenblum
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Let's look at Hatchet by Gary
Paulson.
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mary rosenblum
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This is a story of a kid who
is stranded in the Canadian wilderness after a plane crash...
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mary rosenblum
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and he survives with nothing
to help him but a hatchet that, as I recall, his father gave him. (Been a
long time since I read it).
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mary rosenblum
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If you think about it..
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mary rosenblum
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an experienced bush pilot
wouldn't have made as good a character.
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mary rosenblum
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He would have known how to
survive and managed just fine.
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mary rosenblum
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While the inexperienced city
kid had to learn the hard way about biting insects, bears, how to find food
and the like...
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mary rosenblum
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so his fumbling for survival
drives the story.
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mary rosenblum
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Much more drama and
interesting scenes than our wilderness-skilled bush pilot...
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mary rosenblum
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who simply built himself a
shelter, dropped a fish line into the lake and whipped out a paperback to
wait for the next plane to go over. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And what if you have a ten
year old girl as passenger?
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mary rosenblum
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Now you COULD make her into a
kid who has the gumption to survive and manages and it might even be a
stronger story than the one Paulsen wrote...
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mary rosenblum
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although there's a strong
father son subtext that adds to that story.
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mary rosenblum
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Or she might have simply died
of hypothermia three days into the story.
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mary rosenblum
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But our teen boy had the
physical stamina to take a fair amount of physical abuse and still have the
strength to survive...
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mary rosenblum
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and he fit with the father/son
subplot.
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mary rosenblum
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And I don't know if Paulsen
though this through this way or just thought 'teen kid' as soon as he
thought of the story idea...
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mary rosenblum
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but that character works and
other characters might not have worked as well for this story.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about matching
stories to characters. And vice versa! I've published seven novels (number
eight will be out in November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my
best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that
you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a
question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and
type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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Your story is really an
organic whole that is greater than the sum of character/setting/plot. Or it
should be greater!
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mary rosenblum
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So when you're first plotting
a story out, even if that story came to you in a flash and seems perfect...
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mary rosenblum
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play around with it a bit.
What if you change the character, what then? What if you change the plot?
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mary rosenblum
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Stories seem very 'rigid' to
most writers starting out. Me, too! I wasn't any different.
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mary rosenblum
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You think up a story, you
write it. It works or it doesn't work.
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mary rosenblum
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It takes some time to realize
that stories are like silly putty.
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mary rosenblum
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Twist 'em, pull on em, stretch
em, roll 'em up into a ball and start over...you can do a lot without
hurting them.
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mary rosenblum
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And often, with a bit of
twisting and pulling you discover a diamond hidden in that mess of silly
putty.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you went only with that
first story idea, you might have missed it.
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mary rosenblum
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Very rarely now is the story I
write the story I first thought of.
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, sometimes they come to me
'just right'.
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mary rosenblum
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But most of the time, if I
play with that silly putty for awhile, I do find some kind of gem in there.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember you can't break a
story.
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mary rosenblum
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Write down your original idea.
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mary rosenblum
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If all your playing with it
leaves you with something you just don't like -- go back to the original
version.
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mary rosenblum
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Give yourself permission to
have fun with your story and your characters for awhile before you commit
to a story.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about matching
stories to characters. And vice versa! I've published seven novels (number
eight will be out in November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my
best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that
you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a
question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and
type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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tory
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Mary, I find that though my
novels are all different genres (contemporary, romance, suspense), I
typically have an MC or MC couple, a friend, and a child or two. Can it be
a problem iwth publishers if an author usues the same type of character
over and over? I just realized that pattern I'm developing.
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mary rosenblum
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It depends, Tory. If you
manage to keep the stories fresh and they're not always the same people,
it's not too bad.
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mary rosenblum
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Certainly reviewers will point
this out.
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mary rosenblum
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But if readers like your
family of characters they won't mind meeting them over and over.
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mary rosenblum
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I think I'd suggest that you
do try to stretch a bit beyond this cast.
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mary rosenblum
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You're sort of limiting what
you can do if your characters are all pretty similar.
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mary rosenblum
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Publishers, by the way, won't
care at all as long as your books sell well. :-)
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tory
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Oh I have a wide variety of
"supporting cast"--different ages, ethnicities, etc. Just noticed
I like having a child or two--every time.
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mary rosenblum
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Every writer has 'tropes'. :-)
I have a few of my own.
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mary rosenblum
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As long as they work, it's
fine.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...what you might try, is
to use a character who is very different than the 'usual'. YOu might find
that it pushes your story in a new direction...
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mary rosenblum
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and that may or may not be a
good thing.
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mary rosenblum
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You won't know until you try.
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mary rosenblum
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I think we're all too serious
starting out.
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mary rosenblum
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We get so focused on 'write
the perfect story'...because we're all trying so hard to break in...
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mary rosenblum
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that few of us can play with
what we're doing.
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mary rosenblum
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That tends to come later, when
you've been reassured by some sales. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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But if you can start out doing
a bit of playing to see just what happens, you'll write better for it.
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mary rosenblum
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Sometimes it will give you a
stronger story, other times it will be a dead end, but you'll learn a lot.
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mary rosenblum
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One favorite bit of
story/character testing I do is to change the gender of one character.
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mary rosenblum
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Okay, so what if she is now a
he?
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mary rosenblum
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What happens now?
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mary rosenblum
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Remember, a good character
match is one who, when combined with the plot events, creates the most
power.
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mary rosenblum
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Some of the weakest novice
stories I see are when a superior MC who is one notch short of
superman/superwoman deals with the plot events. Ho hum.
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charie'
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I had an all male space crew and
was stumped as to what their mission was. I changed one crewman to female
and gained a several new plot ideas
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mary rosenblum
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Just the sexual tensions and
dynamics will add a LOT there, charie.
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mary rosenblum
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Or make them all women and
then decide why the expedition is all women and what does that mean?
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mary rosenblum
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You might find that your plot
changes enormously.
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charie'
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I also made her somewhat of a
pariah
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mary rosenblum
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Interesting. :-) And how long
was this trip?
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charie'
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LOL Some of the men want to
protect her, others use her. So far lots of plot fodder
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mary rosenblum
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No kidding. So here's a GREAT
example of matching your character to your plot!
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mary rosenblum
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You have a solo woman on a
long space flight. YOu are going to have exactly that mix of male
responses, depending on how far in the future...
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mary rosenblum
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you are and what the cultural
conventions of that time are. Is the crew all Christian? Some Islam? Asian?
Each group...
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mary rosenblum
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has their own cultural
feelings about women. And what about her?
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mary rosenblum
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Depending on who SHE is, those
interactions will vary all over the map and so will your plot.
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mary rosenblum
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This is a story where I would
spend quite a bit of time thinking about this woman, why she' here, how the
situation is going to affect her and vice versa.
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charie'
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The point being, I was stuck
until I made that initial change
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, I know, this is just such
a perfect example of a story where you'd want to think about that character
particularly.
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mary rosenblum
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And yes, by throwing that
single woman into the mix, you opened up a host of possibilities for the
story.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about matching
stories to characters. And vice versa! I've published seven novels (number
eight will be out in November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my
best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that
you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a
question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and
type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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grayalien
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Mary, I'm writing a story in
which I need the villian to be despicable, one that the reader really
hates. Do you have any tips, hints, that sort of thing?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure, gray. Make that villain
seem nice on the surface and then let him/her do one of the things that we
culturally despise.
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mary rosenblum
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He betrays someone who trusts
him (and whom we like).
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mary rosenblum
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He harms or allows a kid to be
injured or killed.
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mary rosenblum
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He kills someone we care about
in cold blood.
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mary rosenblum
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We have many cultural 'knee
jerks' to certain behaviors.
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mary rosenblum
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Just don't pile it on too
thick and make that person a Mr. Nasty who like to torture small animals
for amusement and eats live fish.
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mary rosenblum
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The more familiar that person
is, the more we'll react to his 'villainous' behavior.
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mary rosenblum
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But the man who wants his
brother's land and calmly tips his young son down the well and then walks
away...him we can hate.
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grayalien
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No small animals will be harmed
in my story. I promise!
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mary rosenblum
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LOL gray, good to hear it.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember...never kill the dog.
Your readers will stone you.
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mary rosenblum
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It can be even more important
to play mix and match with your villain.
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mary rosenblum
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Very few writers do villains
well.
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mary rosenblum
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Mostly they're cardboard.
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mary rosenblum
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and if you can come up with a
villain who really fits your story and is plausible and real...you'll give
your readers bad dreams. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Because they'll see someone
they know or work with in that person.
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mary rosenblum
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Villains are nothing more than
people like you and me who do the things we all sometimes think we'd really
like to do. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Only we're not serious.
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mary rosenblum
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When you come up with a
particular story idea...
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mary rosenblum
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try putting different
characters into the MC slot.
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mary rosenblum
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Give those characters various
personal agendas...
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mary rosenblum
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they have their own issues,
and now they have to deal with this plot, too!
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mary rosenblum
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See if some character doesn't
suddenly make the story take off...
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mary rosenblum
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with a cascade of 'and
then...and then...'
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mary rosenblum
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Like Charie changing her
character to a woman and the story took off.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't make your characters too
usual.
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mary rosenblum
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Give them things they want to
do or need to do that aren't part of your plot.
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mary rosenblum
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You'll give them a lot more
interest that way.
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geezer
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I stuck an aquarium in a
character's office and found out that he resembled a fish!
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, that's funny, geeze. :-)
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grayalien
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I hope this isn't a silly
question, but I'm just beginning as a writer, so I need to ask. What are
some differences between the outlook of male vs. female MC's? Examples?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, there's actually a LOT
of difference. :-) It's not stereotypical, like all guys like to hunt, all
women like to shop. (shudder)
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mary rosenblum
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But it is true that woman and
men tend to think and behave differently, although this is a wide
spectrum...
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mary rosenblum
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and you have a lot of overlap
in the middle.
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mary rosenblum
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It's mostly a matter of paying
attention to the other gender.
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mary rosenblum
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And not just accepting the
superficial stereotypes of bad jokes.
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mary rosenblum
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If you have a close friend of
the appropriate gender, give the story to that person and ask if you got it
right.
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mary rosenblum
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My friend Mike Moscoe runs all
his stuff past his wife. He's using a female POV in his current series
(rare for male writers, by the way).
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mary rosenblum
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And she says at times 'no, she
wouldn't do that, she'd do this'. And Mike listens.
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grayalien
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Sorry, I know that was a pretty
broad question. It's just that I'm writing a story with a female
protagonist, and I'm a guy, so any help is appreciated.
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mary rosenblum
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You guys have a harder time
than we do with this, gray. That really IS the truth.
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mary rosenblum
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I think it is SO culturally
inappropriate for guys to even think about thinking like a woman that it's
hard. Get a friend...
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mary rosenblum
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who's a girl to help you out.
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geezer
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There are studies on differences
in brain structure, chemistry, and processing for the sexes and how it
affects behavior.
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mary rosenblum
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Yeah, there are. Man are from
Mars, Women Are From Venus is decent.
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mary rosenblum
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But you end up with characters
that sound like textbook examples. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Get someone to read your stuff
and comment on the female reactions, gray.
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mary rosenblum
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When I'm doing male POV which
I do a lot...
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mary rosenblum
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I tend to put some friend or
other into the scene. Now what would he do here? How would he say this?
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mary rosenblum
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He won't say the same things
or react the same way as a woman might.
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mary rosenblum
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Next time you use a woman in
your story...
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mary rosenblum
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think of someone who might fit
that role and then think of her in every interaction.
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mary rosenblum
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What would she say?
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mary rosenblum
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What would she do?
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mary rosenblum
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How would she react?
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charie'
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I use the same technique with
women who don't react like I would. There are different personalities
inside the genders.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly.
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mary rosenblum
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I"m a total tomboy and
could pass quite nicely for a teenage boy when I was younger and my hair
was very short. :-) So when I do a very feminine...
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mary rosenblum
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character, I have to draw on
friends of mine who are more like that.
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mary rosenblum
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And it's also cultural.
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mary rosenblum
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A woman in Asia will not react
like a Muslim woman from Pakistan who will not react like a woman from
London or a woman from New York.
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mary rosenblum
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Same with male characters.
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mary rosenblum
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A twenty year old from Hong
Kong will not react the same as a twenty year old from the LA barrio.
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geezer
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When confronted with a plumbing
job, I yell for a man. My friend, a marine's wife, does it herself.
Motivation? Self reliance. Woul;d she be the same married to an accountant?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure, geeze. It would depend
on what she needed from the marriage and what he provided. Might have
nothing to do with who fixed the plumbing. Or sex either, for that matter.
:-)
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charie'
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Age can be a defining character
trait as well.
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mary rosenblum
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Absolutely!
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mary rosenblum
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My 75 year old stepmom who
grew up in the gentile south has a very different reaction to many things
than I do...
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mary rosenblum
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This is what real characters
are all about.
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mary rosenblum
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These are the considerations
that make your 75 year old seem real, or your Hong Kong 19 year old, or
your barrio kid.
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grayalien
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Interesting. I've even read
novels by authors who have female characters, and I can tell that their
moods, reactions, that sort of thing are just plain wrong. Even the best
selling authors seem to do this sometimes.
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mary rosenblum
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All the time.
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mary rosenblum
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I routinely fling Tony
Hillermans books across the room because his women are SUCH 50s
stereotypes.
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mary rosenblum
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But that's the cultural milieu
he came out of.
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mary rosenblum
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Drives me up a wall though,
when he does Navajo so well. He just needs to think of women as tribe,
that's all. LOL
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grayalien
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Or the female character acts too
much like a man. Michael Crichton does this a lot.
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mary rosenblum
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That's the most common and
Michael Crichton doesn't really do characters well. He does plot.
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mary rosenblum
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I saw that, geeze. You can BE
a fifties stereotype, just do real female characters, please. And when do
you think I was born, anyway?
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mary rosenblum
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What I meant about Hillerman,
is that his female characters reflect the common stereotypes of women in
the fifties.
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mary rosenblum
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So when you come up with a
story, play with the character a bit, make some changes, and see if you
don't...
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mary rosenblum
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come up with something that
suddenly clicks with your plot and offers a lot of interesting new
potential.
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mary rosenblum
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You can always use the
character you first thought of.
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mary rosenblum
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And likewise, try tweaking the
plot.
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mary rosenblum
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See if you can change it to
challenge your character in even more personal ways.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't settle for what the muse
serves up first.
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mary rosenblum
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Sometimes it's just right.
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mary rosenblum
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And sometimes she's tossing
you a ball of silly putty and expecting you to do your share.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
Oregon hour. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Stay cool this weekend!
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mary rosenblum
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I'm supposed to judge an
obedience match tomorrow...I hope we don't lose anyone to heat stroke!
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mary rosenblum
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The one thing that I can't
stress too much...and I didn't do it when I was starting out either...
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mary rosenblum
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is PLAY with your stories.
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mary rosenblum
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Make changes...try different
things.
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mary rosenblum
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You can always do it the way
you first thought of it...
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mary rosenblum
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but often a diamond is buried
in there if you just twist it and tweak it for awhile.
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mary rosenblum
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So go twist and tweak!
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mary rosenblum
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Have a good weekend all, see
you on Sunday for our casual chat.
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