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Mary Rosenblum
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Hello all.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Welcome to our Friday After
Hours forum
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Mary Rosenblum
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I hope you're all having a
lovely spring evening, by the way.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about
publishing and self publishing since the publishing world is changing
rapidly.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's hard to say how it's
going to turn out.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The advent of inexpensive
print on demand technology that allows publishers to turn out a very small
print run of books, has made
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Mary Rosenblum
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it amazingly cheap and easy to
either start a small publishing company or to self publish.
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Mary Rosenblum
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This has really facilitated an
explosion of small presses.
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rae
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Is it true that you have to do
the same amount of promotion with both publishing and self-publishing?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's certainly true for
small press and self publishing, yes.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's less true for the NY
publishers, but that's because they have a much larger distribution
network. But it's still a very good idea to do self promotion.
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wingless
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An off topic question, but: When
sending a writing sample to a company or organization, what information
should we include (in addition to the sample itself)?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That depends on what
organization or company you're submitting to, wing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you're talking about a
publisher, just include information that pertains to the work you're
querying about.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And of course, any publishing
clips.
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onepozy
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Getting a book in print seems to
be easier, but promoting or selling it might be harder with self publish or
small press, right?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Exactly, one. It's essentially
free to self publish a book through Lulu Press. And many small press
publishers are very open to new writers, turning out a lot of books in a
year.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But there is a big dividing
line between self published and small press published and it's a divide
that I suspect is going to widen rapidly.
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barbiq
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Isn't it true that if you
self-publish or go with a small unknown press your work will not be
considered for the major awards?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Self published work is almost
never considered for any awards except awards created for self published
work.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It is very much disrespected
and most reviewers won't touch it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That makes it hard to get any
public attention. Reviews ARE your window to the world.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And there's a lot of
difference between small press publishers. Some are highly regarded, put
out quality authors, the books are well produced and they are given serious
consideration for awards.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Others are what I refer to as
'quantity publishers'. They publish most of the people who submit...it
doesn't cost much to publish in POD these days.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They depend on each author
selling a handful of books to family and friends, and they make a small
profit from these many many small sales.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But alas, they develop a
reputation for putting out inferior books and pretty soon reviewers and
award committees ignore them.
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rae
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Would you consider IUniverse a
good small press publisher?
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Mary Rosenblum
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iUniverse is not a small press
publisher, rae. It's a vanity press. You pay them to publish your book. Like
Publish America and many others.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's simply another way to
self publish.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They'll do some of the work
for you, whereas with Lulu Press you can do it all yourself.
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info
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It sounds as if it's better to
just worry about getting the story down right and go through the big NY
publisher's, especially if you don't know what you're doing as far as
marketing your book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's certainly the place you
should start. It's' VERY competitive right now. The NY publishing industry
is really tottering. I suspect that we'll see more and more 'celebrity
novels' and very big names and less of everything else.
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Mary Rosenblum
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There's not one publishing
house out there that's doing well.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But don't discount the small
press as a way into NY. NOT self publishing. I am NOT saying that.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But I do know authors who did
get picked up by NY because their small press books were well received and
got good critical attention.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And this is why it's worth it
to publish with a reputable small press whose books DO get reviewed by major
reviewers.
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barbiq
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How do you tell the difference
between the quality vs quanity small presses?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Mostly it's a matter of
noticing how many titles they publish a year, and noticing whether you have
seen their books reviewed by major reviewers.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Search their titles and author
names. See what turns up.
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info
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Is there a couple small press
publishers that you could name that NY publishers doesn't overlook?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Poisoned Pen Press in mystery,
Nightshade in SF, Fairwood Press...ask your local independent bookstore
manager.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Most of them (the person who
runs the store, not the help) will know who the good publishers are in the
genre they sell and care about.
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barbiq
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So we have to watch out for
self-publishers, vanity publishers, small presses and the many different
branches of the big NY houses?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Barb, you have to watch out
for ANY publisher. A fairy godmother is not going to touch you with a wand
and turn you int a published author. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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You have to do your homework
and find out what the markets are.
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rae
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Once you have your novel
completed, and polished, is it wise to consult agents who specialize in
your genre?
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you want to sell to NY, you
really do need to use an agent. Agents won't handle small press publishers
because they simply can't afford a large advance
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Mary Rosenblum
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and their contracts are
usually more readable and a WHOLE lot simpler!
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rae
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So are you saying it is better
to do magazines until you build a reputation, then do a novel?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not necessarily. Not every
person who can write a brilliant novel can write a short story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you can write and sell short
stories, it will certainly help you to bring published and reviewed short
fiction to the table.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But that also means publishing
with major short fiction markets. And there aren't a whole lot of those out
there.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So don't think of it as 'I
must do this first'.
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quixote
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Last night Patrick Swnsonspoke
of "gatekeepers" -I gather, a quality filter of sorts between
reader and author - would you like to elaborate on that?
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Mary Rosenblum
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This is the main point I want
to address tonight, actually, quix.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Because of the easy access to
self publishing, a tidal wave of self published books has hit the internet.
This is, I suspect,
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Mary Rosenblum
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what amazon.com is doing by
limiting their sales.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're simply trying to dump
the self published authors.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Apaprently, if a small press
is marketing through the major distributors, you can sell on amazon.com.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But the reality is that a
whole lot of VERY badly written drivel without editing, spell checking, or
anything, gets published. None of you folks, but authors who just
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Mary Rosenblum
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slap something between covers.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And those are coloring the
entire 'self published' spectrum with the same brush.
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Mary Rosenblum
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There are good reasons to self
publish.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But thinking that you can
write say a mystery, romance, or SF story and just toss it out on the
internet to sell thousands of copies
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Mary Rosenblum
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is not particularly true.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Word CAN proliferate by word
of mouth and you CAN sell tons of copies. But that's very much a matter of
luck...
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Mary Rosenblum
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If I buy a book from Poisoned
Pen Press I know that book is going to be well written and while I may or
may not love it
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Mary Rosenblum
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it will be well written.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now we may see new
'gatekeepers' arising. I hope so!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'd like to see self published
books find a way to connect with readers. There are some very good ones out
there.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But that requires that your
average reader go to review sites that they trust and then go buy the books
that reviewer recommends.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That is not happening in huge
numbers right now. It may in another decade and then it might not matter
WHO published your book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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We have some sites like that
now. Get a good recommendation on Boing Boing and you're going to get
sales!
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Mary Rosenblum
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And there are others.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But this is not how your
average person picks out the next book to read...yet.
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charge2charge
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What are the big NY publishing
houses?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Charge, those are the big ones
like Penguin-Putnam, Random House and the like. They're huge corporations
with many many imprints.
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info
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Maybe off the subject but, what
about contest like WD where if you receive a nice monetary price if you
win? Do NY publishers notice these types of contest?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not off the subject at all,
info. Some contest wins can get you edtiorial attention. The Writers Digest
is huge, so a win there does mean something.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Although contest juidges are
whimsical, so it's not an automatic 'we'll buy anything you write!'. The
Writers of the Future contest in spec fiction is a nice clip but won't
guarantee a sale.
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louxwriter
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How could you possible break
into these markets? If self-publishing is frowned upon no matter how good
your work is, what's a writer to do these days?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You write really good stuff
and you submit it to to markets. That's simply how you do it. It wasn't any
different back when I was breaking in.
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Mary Rosenblum
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This trend had already
started.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The top NY markets are a bit
tougher now, but you have more serious small press, which you didn't then.
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rae
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Do you have to have an agent to
use Poisoned Pen Press?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Nope. But do read their
guidelines, rae. They are very specific about what they are looking for in
mystery.
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quixote
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suppose a group of editors would
"brand" a self publish book - by editing a self published book
and then it's released with thir names attached - would that be feasible?
or forseeable?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's a flat 'no' in the
publishing world. Doesn't happen.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now if one of two things
happen you CAN call attention to yourself as a self published writer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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One is to sell about 5000
copies of your self published book in the first 12 months it's out. That
will get a NY editor to look at your next book seriously.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Two is to become a
word-of-mouth success, get invited onto Oprah.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now this is very much like
hoping to get struck by lightning, okay?
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Mary Rosenblum
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And it's much more likely to
happen with something that has a strong reader appeal like a self help NF
book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But those ARE the two ways to
get NY's attention.
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Mary Rosenblum
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As a self published author, I
mean.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And I will tell you something.
I have been asking for publishing numbers from folk. Right now, I'm
generally seeing fewer than 100 copies sold in the first year. WAY fewer,
often.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It has never been easy to get
published. In a lot of ways, it's easier now, because strong small presses
are rising to the top.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're going to take the
place of the big NY houses, I predict, and they're going to do it within
the decade.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now we're all going to get to
see if I'm right or not, eh?
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Mary Rosenblum
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But I hear a lot of folk talk
about self publishing because it's no different than publishing with a
small press.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's not true, if the small
press is a serious publisher.
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rae
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But wouldn't you say that you
have to be known by the editors of the small presses before they will even
look at a novel by you?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Heavens no.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Patrick publishes people he
knows, but Patrick started Fairsood as an adjunct to Talebones.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Anyone can submit a novel to
Nightshade, or Poisoned Pen.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now it DOES help if you have
some name recognition.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Small presses have no budget
for advertising, so anything that will make your book attractive to readers
is going to make them prefer you over someone
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Mary Rosenblum
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with no name recognition and
no particuliar way to market the book....if the books are equal in quality.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If your book appeals to, say,
dog owners, by all means meantion when you submit the manuscript that there
are umpty-million
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Mary Rosenblum
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dog owners out there and a lot
of dog show vendors will carry the book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Suggesting marketing tactics
is never a bad thing!
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rae
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This may sound silly, but how do
you get name recognition without selling something first?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, killing someone will do
it. But it's hard to spend your royalties in prison. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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It used to be that publishing
was the only way.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sigh.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I hate to say the blog word,
but I'm going to, and then I"m going to load it down with a TON of
caveats.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The blog is like self
publishing in general...you have a sea of absolutely boring
self-fascination out there and IF
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Mary Rosenblum
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you are going to benefit from
you blog, then people are going to have to post links to it in their blogs
and tell other people who great it is.
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Mary Rosenblum
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This is called viral
dissemination and it is what the internet is eminently suited for.
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Mary Rosenblum
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BUT
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can't make it happen if
your blog is boring self fascination.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Any more than you can get name
recognition if you submit badly written stories to all the top markets.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The name-recognition-by-blog
only works if your blog catches a lot of attention and gets passed on.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And it can simply take over
your writing time.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So it is a very double edged
sword and I would approach it with caution.
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rae
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I am an artist and have a
website for my art. Would it be good to have a section of the website for
my writing as well?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Absolutely!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Entertain people.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Write short shorts and post
them. Combine your art and prose and do illustrated short shorts.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Anything that makes people
remember your name and maybe tell someone else is going to help you.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Do realize that if you publish
work on the internet or your blog it IS published
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Mary Rosenblum
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But casting your bread upon
the waters is not a bad thing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If someone reads a clever
short story and likes it, maybe they'll tell a friend, maybe that friend
will link to your page. Somebody knows about you.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But as I said...this is very
much a double edged sword that can simply take over your writing life.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And if nobody is reading it,
nobody is linking to it, you're wasting your time.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Self publishing has made it
very easy to get published.I
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Mary Rosenblum
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It has not made it one bit
easier to get readers.
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info
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If you do write something in
your blog that is an exert(?) from say a novel, would it still be
considered published? The novel I mean.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Excerpts are fine, info.
Publishers like excerpts. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Just don't publish the entire
novel as excerpts.
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Mary Rosenblum
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STuff gets archived all over
the web and if readers can assemble the entire novel with a quick google
search, why should a publisher pay for it?
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Mary Rosenblum
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In a lot of ways, todays
changes in publishing are opening up a host of opportunity. We simply
haven't made the transition from the 'old' way of doing things to the 'new'
way.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Right now, by all means try
the big NY houses first. They publish unknown new novels all the time by
first time authors.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But then look to the small
press houses. Check out a publisher and see if they seem to be a quantity
publisher.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Google books by them and see
if they're getting reviewed much and where.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now there ARE reasons to self
publish!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'm not saying you should
never do it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Mostly it works best for NF.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you have a solid market and
you know how to reach those potential readers, self publish!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have a friend who wrote
hysterically humorous books about living with goats.
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Mary Rosenblum
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She sold many many copies
through goat supply companies, at goat shows and county fairs, in feed
stores.
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Mary Rosenblum
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She self published and made a
nice little profit from the books, back before Print on Demand.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But all too often the heady
belief is 'I will publish it and they will come.'
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sorry.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's not how it works.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The added 'seal of approval'
of a reputable small perss is going to help you get attention from readers
and will certainly help get you reviewed.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Oh yes...one good way to find
small press?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Go to review sites on the
internet and read reviews. See who's publishing those books.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, thanks for coming and
persevere.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Getting your book published is
hard work, but if you believe in that book, you work hard!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'll post the transcript in
the usual place: Writing Craft: Forum Transcript.
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Mary Rosenblum
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See you all Sunday for our
casual chat!
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