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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all!
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and
more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top
of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you all had a great
week!
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mary rosenblum
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I chose tonight's topic in the
middle of my interview with Diana Kirk last night...
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mary rosenblum
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when the topic of Epublishing
wanted to get off track and into the topic of rights in general.
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mary rosenblum
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So I thought this might be a
good time to bring up the topic when we can spend the entire evening on it.
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mary rosenblum
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Rights ARE confusing if you're
new to the business and right now E rights are confusing to EVERYONE!
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janp
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Did you call that musical
catagories? You two sure were busy!!!
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mary rosenblum
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No kidding, Janp. I was
jumping up here! Whew!
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dbamarsha
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I want to fully understand
'rights' so when I submit I know what they are talking about.
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kitfox_starchild
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what rights should we expect?
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mary rosenblum
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Let's define 'rights' and what
they are, first thing.
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mary rosenblum
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There are two basic types of
work....
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mary rosenblum
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creative work that belongs to
YOU, the author, and work for hire, where your words belong to the person
who employs you.
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mary rosenblum
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If you are writing a work for
hire piece...for example, the novel course I am writing for Long Ridge...
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mary rosenblum
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then all rights belong to the
person who hired you. You have no rights to that work, you get paid for
putting the word together but the words DO NOT belong to you.
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mary rosenblum
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Now in a regular
story/ariticle/book, you OWN the words. You should never sell them.
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mary rosenblum
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Instead you sell the 'right'
to use those words in a very limited way.
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mary rosenblum
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You might sell a magazine the
right to print your words once in their magazine.
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mary rosenblum
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You might sell the right to
use the same words, later on, to a collection of short stories.
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mary rosenblum
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Later, you might sell the
right to use your words to make a movie, or to be published in another
country.
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mary rosenblum
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Your words might show up in
print or as a video game or one the movie screen eight or ten or a dozen
times...
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mary rosenblum
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and each time you are paid for
the USE of the words, but the words ALWAYS belong to you.
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ccollier
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Mary, I just gave one time world
rights to Kid Zone, yet
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ccollier
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this was a reprint which I told
them about
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mary rosenblum
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That's about right for a
reprint, christing. And 'world rights' is the new right that publishers who
might publish on the internet use...
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mary rosenblum
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because it covers North
American rights and Foreign Rights.
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mary rosenblum
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Let's look at this...it's
translatable!
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mary rosenblum
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You sold them the right to use
your words ONE TIME anywhere on the planet.
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mary rosenblum
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They cannot publish your words
on the internet this month and put them into a print anthology next month.
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mary rosenblum
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You sold them ONE use.
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dbamarsha
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Some ask for all rights. Is that
ever a good thing to do?
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mary rosenblum
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Marsha, if you sell All Rights
you are selling your WORDS. If those words become a blockbuster movie and
make millions, do you know how much you get? Nothing. Nada.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't own those words any
more. You sold them.DO NOT EVER SELL ALL RIGHTS.
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mary rosenblum
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This is one of the very few
NEVERs you will hear from me.
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ccollier
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this is a hard copy magazine on
the stands
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mary rosenblum
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Okay, Christine, so they have
the right to publish it in their magazine, no matter where that mag is
distributed ONE time.
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mary rosenblum
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They cannot use it in a
collection of stories from their magazine, unless that right is mentioned
in the contract.
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mary rosenblum
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It often is.
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mary rosenblum
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When I sign a contract for
Asimov's magazine, they have the right to publish my story not only in the
magazine...
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mary rosenblum
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but also in a collection that
contains more than 80% stories from the magazine, BUT they have to pay me
more money to do it.
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ccollier
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Mary, what if its a cover story
for Cricket or something you
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ccollier
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feel would be worth all rights
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mary rosenblum
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Well, you can always sell All
RIghts, Christine. But it means you can NEVER use that story again EVER,
yourself. Unless they give you a legal reversion of rights letter.
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mary rosenblum
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Why not change the contract?
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mary rosenblum
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Most publishers will accept
that. Now if you think you won't ever want to use the story again, don't
bother.
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mary rosenblum
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But many of my stories have
been published over and over and have earned thousands of dollars in the
process.
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ccollier
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I havent sold all rights but i
just wondered what you though
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mary rosenblum
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What you all don't realize is
that just because you get a contract with something like 'all rights'
specified, it doesn't mean that the magazine will accept nothing else.
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mary rosenblum
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If you go to a used car lot to
buy a car and the dealer asks for 10,000 for a car you KNOW is worth only
6,000 what are you going to do?
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mary rosenblum
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Pay 10,000?
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mary rosenblum
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You could walk away, but most
people will offer less than 10,000.
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mary rosenblum
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Sooner or later, the dealer
and the buyer will agree on a price.
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mary rosenblum
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You can do the same thing with
a publishing contract. That's why my agent gets 20% of my gross! She
crosses out a LOT of stuff in my book contract.
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mary rosenblum
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If someone wants World Rights
for an online story and it doesn't specify a time limit...write one in.
'All rights for one year after the initial posting...'
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mary rosenblum
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That's reasonable.
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mary rosenblum
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if they're not happy with it,
they'll call you.
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mary rosenblum
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If they ask for All rights,
try one time world rights. That gives them a LOT of latitude.
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mary rosenblum
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If they want more, then you
can decide if it's worth it to you to turn down the sale, take less money
for it, or let them have what they want.
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mary rosenblum
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I will do different things
depending on how valuable I think the story is.
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mary rosenblum
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If it has limited
saleabilitly, the money is good, and I really don't think I'm going to do
anything more with it...
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mary rosenblum
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I'll give away more rights
than if I think it's a hot story that will resell numerous times.
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helen h
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Is there a technique to getting
the magazine publisher to amend their contracts if they have a take-it or
leave-it policy?
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mary rosenblum
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Very few publishers are that
hard core, helen. If they are, then you have to make that decision. Is the
sale worth it to me? If it is, go for it. No shame in selling more than you
might. If it's your first sale and you now have a published clip...good!
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mary rosenblum
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Just be aware of what you are
doing.
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ccollier
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Most likely anyone wanting all
rights wont want a reprint
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, often they do. There are
tons of bad contracts out there, where the publisher really doesn't
understand contracts either! Mostly this is a problem in small press and a
BIG problem in internet publishers!
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mary rosenblum
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I just looked over a contract
for a graduated LR student. What that student signed was an agreement to
let the publisher...
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mary rosenblum
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publish ANY story he submitted
for a price 'to be agreed upon'. There was no obligation on the publisher's
part, but if they accepted ANY story EVER the contract applied. Not good.
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twhorn
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if they ask for "All
Rights" and you refuse, could you wind up losing the deal?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes. Possibly. Then you decide
if the sale is worth it.
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mary rosenblum
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It's not likely to happen with
a large circulation magazine...They'd have the professional writers
organizations on their backsides for a contract like that!
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mary rosenblum
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But the pro organizations like
SFWA, MWA, and the like can't police all the tiny small press markets.
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mary rosenblum
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Asimovs got boycotted some
years back for sneaking in a clause that gave them Erights.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and
more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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kitfox_starchild
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Is first North American a one
time right?
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mary rosenblum
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First NA serial rights is a
magazine right. It grants the publisher the right to publish your piece for
the first time in the US, Canada and Mexico.
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mary rosenblum
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Publish means to distribute
for sale or profit...
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, the internet counts.
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mary rosenblum
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And no, you don't have to get
a check for it to count as 'gain'. If it's a commercial publication...an
ezine...you may not get paid, but it's published.
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dbamarsha
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Would you recommend that we have
someone look over a contract before we sign it? Someone who knows what to
look for? Especially, those of us who are new?
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mary rosenblum
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That can get expensive,
marsha, and I know how little you make as a new writers!
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mary rosenblum
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There are tons of very
educational sites on the internet that will help you understand contracts
and rights.
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mary rosenblum
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The most comprehensive is the
sfwa.org site...they have a contracts section.
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mary rosenblum
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'SFWA contracts page
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mary rosenblum
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sfwa.org has a wealth of
information about contracts, agents, how to spot scam publishers and the
like.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't need to be a science
fiction writer to go there. Book mark it and use it any time you have a
question.
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ccollier
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Dont you think most contracts
are open and honest Mary
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mary rosenblum
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Well, yes and no, christine.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember that all contracts
are written for the benefit of the publisher, not the writer.
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mary rosenblum
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AND...small press publishers
may not know any more about rights than YOU do.
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mary rosenblum
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While you may sign a contract
that essentially sells your words to the publisher, that publisher may
never notice or care that you then publish your article/story elsewhere...
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mary rosenblum
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even though that is now
illegal.
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mary rosenblum
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But what if you become the
next Rowling, and you sold All Rights of your first two chapters as a story
on a tiny little ezine...
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mary rosenblum
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Guess what? They're going to
sue you for a BIG chunk of your huge profit on the novel!
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mary rosenblum
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So as I said...if it's a
throwaway story..don't worry about it. But if it might not be...worry about
it!
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mary rosenblum
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Educate yourselves.
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catydorr
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what about "for display
only"
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mary rosenblum
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Legally, you can post your
story on your website 'for display only', caydorr, and it does not legally
affect your rights.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...two problems here.
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mary rosenblum
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One: Why should anyone buy
your story or the magazine its in if they can read it free.
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mary rosenblum
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YOur editor is not gonna buy
any more stories from you if you're giving 'em away, too. HE gets paid
because the magazine sells.
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mary rosenblum
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Two: If that publisher says
'it's published, we'll give you only second NA pay' are you going to spend
thousands to sue them over a story?
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catydorr
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what about bits and pieces of a
story-to entice?
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mary rosenblum
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I'd say that's safe for a
personal website. I will be putting chunks of my upcoming novel on my
website to entice. :-) That is to the publisher's benefit!
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mary rosenblum
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Will I ever put an entire
story up there? No.
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roady
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Should a person put that little
(c) on poems and things when
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mary rosenblum
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Roady, lots of people do.
Legally that means you have REGISTERED your copyright. You don't need to
register it, it is yours the moment you commit your idea to some form of
tangible medium...
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mary rosenblum
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film, tape, paper, computer
memory.
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mary rosenblum
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Copyright registration is
mostly useful in terms of infringement lawsuits...you better believe
Stephen King registers his!
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mary rosenblum
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You can visit the US
government's copyright website and find out all about it.
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mary rosenblum
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But you don't need to register
your work. It is illegal for anyone to use your words without your
permission for 50 years after your death.
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mary rosenblum
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US copyright FAQ page
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cloux
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If there is a mag that wants all
rights, how likely is it that they will allow you to sell it elsewhere if
you ask?
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cloux
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or allow the article to be
reprinted?
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cloux
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does my question make any sense?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes. They may.
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mary rosenblum
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They may ask for all rights
because that way they can stick it on their ezine and not worry about
anything and maybe they don't know rights very well either.
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mary rosenblum
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You can ask if you can use it.
Good idea to get the 'yes' in writing though. And if they say no, too bad.
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owlybear
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does the US copyright also
include Canadian writers or would we have to do that here?
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mary rosenblum
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There is the Berne agreement
owly, that most countries have signed. Copyright in one country is
respected in all the others, BUT you have to do whatever Canadian copyright
law requires.
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mary rosenblum
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Sorry, I should have checked
that out. I'm sure you can find it on the internet quickly enough.
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helen h
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what is the difference between
"perpetual and assignable" and "all copyrights" ?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, let's start with
copyright. That is not the same as 'rights' which are in essence a license
to use your words. copyright and rights are not the same word.
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mary rosenblum
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Assignable rights are the
rights you can assign. NA rights, first anthology rights, book club rights,
movie rights, foreign language rights...
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mary rosenblum
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perpetual rights are the
rights to own your words. Yours unless you assign those perpetual
rights...as in you sell All Rights.
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dbamarsha
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So we should not be afraid to
amend a contract?
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mary rosenblum
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Never. Don' t nitpick, but if
the contract wants 'all rights' give them 'First world rights'.
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mary rosenblum
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It is a very good idea, if you
are selling to an ezine, to limit the length of time the story can be on
the site. If you do NOT, then they can legally keep it up forever.
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mary rosenblum
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One year after posting is
good.
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mary rosenblum
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Then they can't archive it and
keep it available forever.
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waricat
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Just what kind of rights do we
have with Epublishing?
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waricat
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Do we have any ownership if a
portion of a work is posted?
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mary rosenblum
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Let me quote you from the SFWA
site, vericat.
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mary rosenblum
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It is unlikely that a contract
written today can determine what rights can be economically exploited in
the future, how valuable those rights will be, or what company will be in
the best position to exploit them. Writers should protect their equity in
their creative work by retaining these rights, as they retain movie rights,
until they can sell them in the expectation of a profit. Sfwa.org
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mary rosenblum
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The current difficulties in negotiating
electronic rights come largely from genuine ignorance about the value of
these rights. The publishers do not want to let rights get away that will
be necessary to their future financial health. Neither do we.
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mary rosenblum
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Most publishers are responding
reasonably to reasonable stands on retaining electronic rights. The process
sometimes takes time As both sides gain experience, and as the market
develops, it will be easier to negotiate a fair grant of rights.
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mary rosenblum
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In the meantime, we can
protect our equity in our creative work by retaining electronic rights, as
we retain movie rights, until we can sell them profitably. Sfwa.org
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mary rosenblum
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There are two types of
electronic rights: Distribution rights and adaptation rights.
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mary rosenblum
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If you sell to an ezine and
they post your story on the ezine site...that is distrbution...as is a CD
with your book on it.
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mary rosenblum
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If they use your story in a
computer game with graphics, music, and so forth...that is adaptation.
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mary rosenblum
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You will share profits with
the people doing the graphics, creating the music, and prgramming the game.
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mary rosenblum
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Nobody really knows what the
value will be tomorrow.
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mary rosenblum
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So hang on to as many erights
as you can...All Electronic rights may not be a good thing to grant.
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mary rosenblum
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Mostly, keep it in
perspective.
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mary rosenblum
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If you're talking one 4000
word story and you have sold all rights...well, so what?
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mary rosenblum
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You know better now. You'll
write lots more stories.
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mary rosenblum
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Is it really likely to become
a blockbuster? Nah.
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mary rosenblum
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So big deal.
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mary rosenblum
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If your first sale will go to
a magazine that wants more rights than you care to give, but hey, you will
get great exposure.
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe it's worth it!
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catydorr
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actually doesn't most
informative article say to not give up e-rights until the very last?
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mary rosenblum
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yeah, but that's less and less
doable, caty.
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mary rosenblum
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More and more print publishers
want at least some Erights so that they can promote on their websites.
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kitfox_starchild
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What does "all rights
reserved" mean?
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mary rosenblum
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It means you cannot copy this
piece in any way, shape, or form without permission.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a reminder that this is
not public domaine.
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roe
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Is there any way for that person
to get out of that contract?
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mary rosenblum
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Not if you signed it, dear.
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helen h
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what would you say to a magazine
whose contract says "xxx pubs will own all copyrights in the
material". especially if they are the largest chain in the genre you
work in?
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mary rosenblum
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Have you tried changing the
contract? Here it depends. What is that work worth to you? Is it a fair
trade TO YOU to have it published there? I wouldn't sign it, but I want to
sell that story several more times. If you are talking novel here, I would
certainly not sign it.
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mary rosenblum
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You can sell movie rights,
foreign language rights (some of my books have been published in two or
three other countries), anthology rights, book club rights, audio rights...
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mary rosenblum
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you're giving these all up for
that contract and for a book, that is real money. Not so for most short
stories.
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mary rosenblum
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Your typical BASIC movie
option...just the right to consider the story for one to three years is
5000 dollars.
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mary rosenblum
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It is many times that if the
movie is actually made.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't give up your movie
rights. I've had mine optioned. Nice check!
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mary rosenblum
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I've had short stories
optioned!
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. I've published seven novels and
more than 60 short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question'
button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the
screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if
that works better for you..
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owlybear
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Supposing you sell a story with
'All Rights' and then using the same topic you rewrite it, doesn't it
become another story, or can there be repercusions from it by the
publisher?
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mary rosenblum
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Not if it's a significant
change, owly.
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mary rosenblum
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Now a few minor tweaks are NOT
significant changes...but this is a very gray area.
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mary rosenblum
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It seems like a jungle when
you start out.
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mary rosenblum
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But the sfwa site has some
good sample contracts you can look at.
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mary rosenblum
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And most publishers are open
to some changes.
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mary rosenblum
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And when you're staring out,
that first sale can be worth a lot!
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waricat
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I thought they required a
certain percentage of change
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mary rosenblum
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Well, vari, deciding what
percentage has been changed is highly subjective. Mainly it depends on
whether the publisher feels that your second article is directly competing
with the one he bought!
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mary rosenblum
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Rights seem like a jungle, but
they're not so awful as you begin to read carefully.
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mary rosenblum
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The main thing to consider is
this.
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mary rosenblum
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As you begin to build your
name and reputation, you will find that you can resell work.
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mary rosenblum
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People want your name now,
they want stuff you have written and if it was published five years ago, so
what?
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mary rosenblum
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It's new to their readers.
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mary rosenblum
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That is mainly why you only
want to sell temporary use of your work.
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mary rosenblum
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In particular, be careful to
write in a time limit on ezine contracts.
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mary rosenblum
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When your name is worth money,
that story you posted on Littlefiction.com may be very saleable to
something like Glimmer Train or Slate.com. But if it's still up on the
Littlefiction website....
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mary rosenblum
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Second rights or reprint
rights don't earn you a ton of money but hey, you don't have to do any more
work! Free money!
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mary rosenblum
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It's not this story now that
is important to think about, it's this story five years from now!
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mary rosenblum
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One of my stories has now
topped 5000 dollars in income.
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mary rosenblum
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It has been published in at
least one magazine and several anthologies.
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ccollier
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Congrats Mary, what story is
that?
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mary rosenblum
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Water Bringer, Christine. It
was the inspiration for my first novel, although the story isn't part of
that novel.
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mary rosenblum
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When you sign book contracts
with Epublishers and POD houses, the main thing to look for there is a way
out.
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mary rosenblum
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You should be able to sever
the association at stated intervals if you wish to.
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mary rosenblum
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Diana mentioned that her
publisher has a 'contract review' at stated intervals. I assume that either
publisher or author can terminate the contract at that point.
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mary rosenblum
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Now there is a flip side to
being contract saavy.
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mary rosenblum
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There is a writer in Portland,
a friend of mine, who is rabid about his rights.
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mary rosenblum
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He nitpicks every contract,
even if the terms are not likely to affect this particular work at all.
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mary rosenblum
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I know at least two cases in
which the publisher terminated the negotiations. I'd say so far, he's cost
himself at least ten grand.
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mary rosenblum
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Probably more that I don't
know about.
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mary rosenblum
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Now we're not talking one
change to the contract here!
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mary rosenblum
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We're talking four or five
exchanges where he was unhappy about little things.
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mary rosenblum
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So you CAN go overboard about
controlling your rights!
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mary rosenblum
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Again, you decide what matters
to you, but do keep those future anthology sales in mind!
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waricat
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Sounds like cutting off your
nose to spite your face
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mary rosenblum
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IN this case, that's true, but
he's an extreme example. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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One thing you all don't
realize as new writers...and I'm speaking to the fiction writers here...
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mary rosenblum
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Short fiction pays diddly on a
first-sale basis. You might get a whopping 1500 dollars from the very top
market.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...it can be sold over and
over again.
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mary rosenblum
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As you become a known name,
you get requests from editors putting together anthologies.
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mary rosenblum
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They'll take a story that was
published in a magazine three years or five years ago.
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mary rosenblum
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It will be new to many of
their readers and your name is what they want as well.
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mary rosenblum
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So think of your stories as
your stock in trade. if the shelves are bare, you have nothing for the
customer who comes knocking.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't really understand
about that resale thing when you start out...I sure didn't!
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mary rosenblum
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You find out as you start
selling that way. You are thinking of your future when you say no to 'all
rights'.
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mary rosenblum
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And if a conference, say,
wants to publish a story by me in their souvenir magazine and I don't have
time to write one...I have plenty I can let them use.
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helen h
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do the majority of magazines use
contracts? Or do some non-fiction publications use more of the approach of
a newspaper and their stringers. you query, write it, they print it, and
pay what their usual scale is. all without a formal contract.
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mary rosenblum
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Reputable publishers ALL use
contracts. You are not employed as a stringer or reporter as you are for a
newspaper. Even a regular columnist for a paper has a contract...
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mary rosenblum
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she has a deadline, a
definition of what is expected of her, and a stated fee.
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mary rosenblum
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Now that you don't have
publislhers who might operate without one, but it just means you don't have
the rules clear if there is ever a dispute.
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owlybear
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Gee...you mean I might be able
to make more money from the articles I've written for the weekly papers for
the past 3 years??? Wow..
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mary rosenblum
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Hey, if you haven't written as
work for hire, owly, or given your publisher all rights, sure you should be
able to resell those articles.
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mary rosenblum
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Many of the narrative writers
like Patrick McManus or Bailey White. Alice Waters, collect pieces that
were originally published in magazines.
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mary rosenblum
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The first publication is
listed on the copyright page, just inside the cover.
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mary rosenblum
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But check with your paper.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't want to find out
that you signed a paper that granted the newspaper perpetual rights (ie all
rights forever).
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mary rosenblum
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I am much more mindful of my
rights now that I have a name that will allow me to sell my work many
times. I didn't worry about it at all when I only wanted to make that first
sale!
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mary rosenblum
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And I didn't make any really
costly mistakes.
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mary rosenblum
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But it's worth thinking about,
so that you at least know what you are granting and realize that you CAN
make changes.
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mary rosenblum
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Just remember that your
publisher must make money from your piece.
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mary rosenblum
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if they publish on the
internet they need World Rights. They can't just buy NA rights if people in
Japan are reading the stuff!
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mary rosenblum
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If they do an online version
of the magazine, they need erights to do that.
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mary rosenblum
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You can grant them erights to
publish for a certain length of time in their online magazine. And you CAN
call the editor up and ask if you're not sure about a contract.
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mary rosenblum
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Or email them.
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mary rosenblum
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Just be polite.
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mary rosenblum
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They probably arn't trying to
cheat you! And most of the time, they'll grant your demands if it doesn't
get in the way of what they need for the magazine/anthology, whatever.
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speckledorf
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Just got leditslip contest
results...Roe placed 2nd with a short story, I placed second with my nonfic
proposal and dorry received honorable mention for both her entries.
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mary rosenblum
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Wow, that's GREAT, speck!
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mary rosenblum
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This was a sizeable contest!
Way to go, all three of you!
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mary rosenblum
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Applause applause!
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
Oregon Hour.
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mary rosenblum
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Do check out the sfwa.org
site.
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mary rosenblum
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It is VERY informative about
the business of writing.
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mary rosenblum
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And it has lots of links to
websites where you can check out scams. It also links to the most recent
legal decisions about all things related to writing.
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mary rosenblum
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Have a good weekend, all.
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mary rosenblum
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Next Friday I'll be coming to
you from Austin Texas, at the SF conference there.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you're not sure about a
contract, you can always email me and ask.
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mary rosenblum
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IO
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mary rosenblum
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I'll do my best to give you
good advice!
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patchworkcat
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Mary, completely off topic, but
do you know anything about Wiccan rituals? Sweeping a room of neg energy
east to west or the reverse?
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mary rosenblum
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Patch, I know at least one
wiccan here in town.
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mary rosenblum
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I could ask her, if you have
specific questions.
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cloux
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Mary did you get my email today
about article publication?
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mary rosenblum
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Ah, I did. Sorry, Cloux!
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mary rosenblum
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Cloux is also recently
published.
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mary rosenblum
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Want to tell us where? I
checked for your letter and I don't know WHERE I put it, offhand!
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mary rosenblum
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Congatulations!
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cloux
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iParenting.com under the Babies
Today section
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mary rosenblum
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That's it! I even remember!
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mary rosenblum
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Congratulations, Cloux!
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catydorr
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where do sent published material
to get it posted ast LR
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mary rosenblum
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If you email me your
publication news, I'll post it on the Calendar page..I have several people
there right now!
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks for coming all!
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mary rosenblum
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Have a good weekend, and I'll
see you all Sunday at our casual chat...
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mary rosenblum
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same time same place!
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