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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all! Happy Tuesday! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're
new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or
the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen,
or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question
to reach me.
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anne shiever of ks
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Hello Mary, how was your trip
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mary rosenblum
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It was a lot of fun, thank you
Anne. It was a very small conference this year, but that gave me time to visit
with people instead of doing nonstop business.
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mary rosenblum
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It won't be nearly that
relaxing at WorldCon in Boston in a couple of weeks!
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mary rosenblum
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But I did manage to get some
business done, so it wasn't ALL social.
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anne shiever of ks
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You gotta have a little play
time, too
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And for those of you in the
audience, writers conferences are worth attending. Even this one, which was
quite small...
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mary rosenblum
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had some good panels on
writing topics.
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mary rosenblum
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And it is a chance to meet
editors, writers, and agents.
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted to talk more about
short stories today...
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mary rosenblum
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I've brought this topic up before,
and did that fun workshop on a Friday After Hours a few weeks ago...
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mary rosenblum
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but I think it's worth coming
back to. I get a LOT of questions from frustrated students and novice
writers...
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mary rosenblum
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who are trying to cram a novel's
worth of story into a short story length.
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mary rosenblum
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And that simply doesn't work.
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mary rosenblum
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Novels and short stories are
not written alike at all...
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mary rosenblum
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and are quite different in structure.
If you read novels for pleasure, you WILL try to write short stories in
novel form.
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mary rosenblum
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It takes some time to figure
out why that doesn't work, on your own!
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sweet_muse
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Hi Mary. I do that -- I try to
cram a novel's worth into a short story. I need to get quality of a novel
story into a shorter word length.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, Sweet, and that is very
common.
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mary rosenblum
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You are used to thinking of
story in terms of the stories you read in novels...
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mary rosenblum
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and they are simply too large
for a limited word count.
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mary rosenblum
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If you take out enough stuff
to squeeze that story down to 5000 words...you have a summary!
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mary rosenblum
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And nobody cares about the characters
and hence, the story.
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coway
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I found it very difficult and
re-wrote MANY times the short for my SF book!
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mary rosenblum
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Yep, coway, and all too often
what happens is that writers don't change the plot, they simply keep
trimming words.
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mary rosenblum
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And often end up with that
summary.
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bjrpark
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Is learning to write good short
stories a good way to learn
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mary rosenblum
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It is, bjrpark, even if you
end up a novelist.
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mary rosenblum
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One of the things that short writing
does for you is it teaches you how to write tightly.
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mary rosenblum
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You MUST write tightly in
order to work within the limits of short form, but in novel...
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mary rosenblum
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you can sprawl.
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mary rosenblum
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However, if you write tightly,
you can 'sprawl' with content rather than simply including a lot of words
you don't need.
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mary rosenblum
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I have gotten a lot of
critical praise for my novels from reviewers for the taut pacing and
plotting...
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mary rosenblum
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and that is the direct result
of using a short story style for the novels. I am first and foremost a
short story writer...
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mary rosenblum
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but it translates very well to
long form.
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t green
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i find that it helps me to read
children's stories (bedtime stories and such) to get a feel for the shorter
stories.
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mary rosenblum
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T, that can be a good way to
do it, but I'd suggest that if you are writing for adults you read
collections of short fiction in the genre you prefer.
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hedwig
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Mary, if one purpose of a poem
is to make visible things (death, despair, hope, love) that are invisible,
and a novel is the in-depth exploration of a theme (e.g., is real
forgiveness possible?), what are some of the purposes of short stories? I
know one purpose is to give insight into the human condition. But what
else?
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mary rosenblum
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Oops...sorry...I didn't finish
my reason for t... got distracted by dogs!
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mary rosenblum
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The reason I suggest adult
short fiction is that some childrens stories are heavily narrative and that
is not always the best style for short fiction.
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mary rosenblum
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Hedwig, short fiction is by
necessity a revelation. It can be the revelation of human condition... and
it can address...
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mary rosenblum
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the same themes that a novel
might explore in depth...such as the possibility of real forgivennes...
which is actually a theme I have addressed more than once in my short
fiction...
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mary rosenblum
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because it is one that
interests me. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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But it is more an offering of
insight rather than a lengthy perusal.
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mary rosenblum
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In many ways, I find that well
written short fiction can have as much impact as a novel.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're
new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or
the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen,
or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question
to reach me.
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anne shiever of ks
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Isn't short stories a way to
hold the attention of the short-reader, one who wants to read but doesn't
have the time for a big book
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mary rosenblum
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Not necessarily, anne.
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mary rosenblum
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There are many reasons people
write...pure entertainment is one end of the spectrum... and a strong
message or point is at the other...
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mary rosenblum
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and much fiction involves
both.
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mary rosenblum
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But you can get the entire
story in a short period of time in short fiction...
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mary rosenblum
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and it may indeed work better
for a reader with little time who simply loses track of a novel's many complications...
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mary rosenblum
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over a two week reading
period.
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coway
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I ended up adding a new
character with her own ajenda for the mission. LOL...now I have to re-rite
in spots in the book to add her.
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coway
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Is it okay..in short I
introduced a new character that now has to be intwined within book....she
has her own agenda for the mission.
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mary rosenblum
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That sounds like a strong
subplot, coway. I'm assuming this is a novel and not a short story, right?
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mary rosenblum
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You can always add characters.
You can make LOTS of changes! You just need to make 'em work.
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curseofthe44
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I like the annual anthology
"The Best of Science Fiction"
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mary rosenblum
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It's a good overview of the field,
curse. Dozois does one and Hartwell does another. I personally like Dozois'
better, but I've been in both.
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coway
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THe short is based on novel I'm
writing
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mary rosenblum
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That's a good way to promote a
book before you sell it, but a short story taken from a novel must stand on
its own with a strong resolution...
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mary rosenblum
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rarely can you simply lift a
chapter and use it as a short story..
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mary rosenblum
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although I often adapt a short
story to become the first chapter or two of a new novel..
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mary rosenblum
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that is true of the one I just
finished. A story that will appear in Asimov's in the coming year has
become the first two chapters of the novel...with necessary adaptations.
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bengalrose
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What about taking the concept of
an opening chapter and focusing on that? Narrows the focus and allows you
to limit the story to a single, striahgt forward plot.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, bengal...BUT...your conflict
in the first chapter may not be strong enough and certainly should not be
resolved thoroughly enough to make a short story without some changes.
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bjrpark
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is short story technique a good
segue to learn novel writing
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mary rosenblum
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I think so, brj.
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mary rosenblum
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You not only learn a lot about
craft as you learn how to write within the limits of the short form...
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mary rosenblum
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but you can try a dozen
different styles, genres, ways of doing things...
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mary rosenblum
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without committing yourself to
100,000 words for each new project.
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mary rosenblum
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It is a great way to explore
and stretch your boundaries.
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curseofthe44
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Is it true that writers should
start writing short stories
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mary rosenblum
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Not if you can't do it, curse.
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mary rosenblum
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Some people never write a
short story. If you are staring at your screen and not writing because
short stories just don't work for you...
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mary rosenblum
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go to novel.
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mary rosenblum
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If you enjoy working in the
short form, I suggest it will help you as a writer to do it, but do novel
at the same time. Why not?
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mary rosenblum
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No reason to limit yourself to
one project at a time!
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mary rosenblum
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You will learn a lot as you
write your way through those 350 pages, even if you never tackle short
stories.
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mary rosenblum
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Craft is craft and you learn
by doing.
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bjrpark
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are there more saleable genres
than others in todays market?
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mary rosenblum
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Of course, bjr, and it changes
with the times, believe me.
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mary rosenblum
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Right now, courtesy of
Rowling, fantasy is hot.
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mary rosenblum
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It wasn't a few years ago.
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mary rosenblum
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Thrillers are always hot, but they're
not as hot as they were...they've lost ground to fantasy at the moment...
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...
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mary rosenblum
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One thing to remember.
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mary rosenblum
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You are looking at two years AFTER
you sell your book before it hits the market. Say it takes you a year to
write and sell a fantasy novel...
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mary rosenblum
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and then it's two more years
before it's on the shelf. Will fantasy still be hot then? Hard to say.
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mary rosenblum
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But it WILL be easier to sell
to fantasy right now than say, hard SF.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're
new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or
the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen,
or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question
to reach me.
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roe
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Isn't one way to do it, to have
it pretty much a story in its own right and introduce the characters and
major plot, but then have a sub plot that is solved in short
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mary rosenblum
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YOu can do that roe, but the
thing that will need to change is the importance of the resolution.
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mary rosenblum
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In a subplot, the resolution
is part of the main plot. In the short story, it takes center stage and
ends the story.
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mary rosenblum
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You'll have to tweak a bit so
that the reader doesn't feel that the story is 'open ended' and not really
resolved.
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hedwig
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I have been reading tons of
short stories lately trying to figure them out. Tim O'Brien's "The
Things They Carried" and White's "Second Tree from the
Corner" are listed among the best out there, but I've read them and
don't entirely "get them." I see character change by the end, but
not much plot. And at the end I find myself going "uh?" WjatWhat
am I missing.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, always shake some salt
on anyone's pronoucement that something is 'the best out there'..that is
highly subjective!
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mary rosenblum
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But yes, the forms do very
different things and you may simply prefer novels. It's a matter of
personal taste.
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sweet_muse
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I was reading a book that stated
in the author's opinion and asking other authors that writing a novel is
much more simple than writing short fiction. He gave one reason being lack
of room for growth in a few thousand words of a short. I agree...
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, it IS more difficult to
write short fiction than novel, in my opinion. And of course you can show a
character's growth...but it takes more skill to do it in a few thousand
words...
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mary rosenblum
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and the shorter the story the
harder it is to pull off. That's why I tend to write at the 8000 - 10000
word range. I am a character writer primarily.
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bengalrose
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Mary, as a life-long fan of
Fantasy and Science Fiction novels, but a recent reader of short fiction I sometimes
feel a sense of unease with the format. I dutifully by copies of F and SF,
Azimovs etc, but sometimes I have trouble getting that "cozy"
feeling I get with a novel length work. Is this wierd or am I just sensing
the difference between the two formats?
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mary rosenblum
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I meant to post this iwth
hedwig's comment.
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mary rosenblum
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Too, a lot of stories in F
& SF and Asimovs is that many short stories in those magazines are plot
driven rather than character driven..
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mary rosenblum
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and those probably contrast
more strongly with novel form. Character driven short stories will be more
familiar to the novel reader.
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curseofthe44
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I tried to write a novel, but
discovered I am better at shorts. Now I am attempting to shorten the novel.
I've cut straight to the middle--to the good stuff.
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mary rosenblum
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Do what you are happiest with,
curse. But don't try to use your novel plot and trim it.
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mary rosenblum
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Try refocusing your plot so
that you are dealing with a smaller plot landscape.
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mary rosenblum
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It is the plot that determines
the length of the story. Every story has its natural length and more or
less than that doesn't work.
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jackie7777
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Can I create a colection of
short stories in a book form?
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mary rosenblum
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Jackie you can. I have one out
in hardcover and plan to sell another...BUT...it is quite difficult as an
unpublished writer.
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mary rosenblum
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Single author collections tend
to sell because readers want to read THAT author. But you can sell short
stories to the anthology market.
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mary rosenblum
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There are quite a few of those
out there. That is a collection of stories on a theme, written by different
authors.
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coway
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what about SF intrermingled with
politics and issues of today? Seems to be sorta of soft thriller SF or soft
mystery SF confunessed on what it is exactly. I do know it's SF,
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mary rosenblum
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Well, you're pretty much
describing the SF I write, coway. :-) It's SF.
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molly
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Why does it take two years til a
sold book hits the market? That seems like a long time to publish.
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mary rosenblum
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It can be shorter if there is
a hole in the schedule, but rarely for a new novelist.
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mary rosenblum
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Let me describe the publishing
process for you.
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mary rosenblum
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This is NY mainstream
publishers, realize. Small press publishers do these things much more
quickly because they have a lower volume.
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mary rosenblum
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In Random House, Putnam,
Viking and so forth..
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mary rosenblum
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you sell the book. For the
next 6 months or so, probably not much happens. You get the contract you
sign it, you eventually get half of your advance.
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mary rosenblum
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Then, after that long slow
period, you get the ms back from your editor with a list of questions she
wants you to answer and her edits.
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mary rosenblum
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Now you revise the ms, fixing
the problems and arguing about whatever you want to argue about...
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mary rosenblum
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and this process takes maybe
another 3 months, depending.
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mary rosenblum
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Then it goes to copyediting
and you get to look at THAT version.
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mary rosenblum
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Then it goes to galley proofs
or page proofs and you get it back to check for typos and dropped
paragraphs.
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mary rosenblum
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And THEN it goes into production.
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mary rosenblum
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Now the publisher has a
marketing meeting once every year and schedules all the books for the
coming year...release dates.
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mary rosenblum
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There are reasons to release
at certain times and the editors fight over whose book ends up where on the
schedule.
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mary rosenblum
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So even if your book is
finished after 12 months, it may not be on the shelf until 11 months after
that, if that's where you are on the schedule.
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t green
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You mean that YOU have to proofread
the publishing house's work??
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mary rosenblum
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Yep. They hire copy editors
and they DO proof for typos, but only YOU know if they left a paragraph
out. You'd BETTER proof it.
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twhorn
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Will the transcript of this
forum be posted in a file? I can't always make these forums and find them
helpful, but have not been able to find them in the LR site.
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mary rosenblum
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I post every transcript,
twhorn. Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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AND you all, you CAN submit questions
ahead of time. Just reply to the email reminders I send out, the one that
tells you what the forum is about.
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coway
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YOu are definelty right on about
reading mags before sending!!! I could not find Talebones so first story
was withiout reading it. THIS time I order subscrition from net had to
revise my story some to add more detailed descriptions.
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mary rosenblum
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No kidding, coway! All the
writers guidelines sound vaguely alike and the magazines and the books
published by a particular line are VERY different.
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molly
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WOW! I knew there was alot
involved, but never imagined all of that!
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mary rosenblum
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It's a complicated process,
molly. :-)
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margieh
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I've heard that shorts are good for
focusing in depth on a moment or emotion or a particular incident. Can it
be character-driven? If so, what would you emphasize?
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mary rosenblum
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All my shorts are character
driven, margieh.
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mary rosenblum
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You simply can't use 30,000 words
to develop a character. You reveal that character and then focus on the
moment of change.
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mary rosenblum
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They can be VERY intense and
carry a lot of emotional impact.
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ejamortizer
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Mary, I am working on #4, and
chose non-fiction. Am I the only one that has a problem doing an article of
only 1,000 words? My instructor says to add an 'anecdote or two' and that
takes up so much of my space.
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mary rosenblum
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eja, that and slant are the two
key aspects of NF that beginners struggle with. Yes, 1000 words is actually
a mid-size article.
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mary rosenblum
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Often you will only have 500 -
750 words to work with. You learn to do two anecdotes and the info in 1000
words, that's all. That's why you're taking a course! You'll get better at
it.
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hedwig
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A just published short story in
a popular woman's magazine was about a woman on a scuba diving adventure
discovering that she was pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy. The story
followed her as she tried to decide between abortion and having the child.
Frequently she wished all the scuba diving would simply kill the child. But
then she went down on a dive and her tank malfunctioned, and she,
underwater, had to struggle to stay alive. This showed her the preciousness
of life and so she decided, for the time being, to have the baby. Okay. But
why is this compelling? What makes it a "good" short story?
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mary rosenblum
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To me, it's not compelling,
mainly because of the external motivator.
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mary rosenblum
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I probably would find it more
compelling if the resolution came from within her rather than through an
outside force.
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mary rosenblum
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It seems a little simplistic
to me, from your summary, but I couldn't really say without reading the story.
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hedwig
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So what makes a short story a
short story rather than a "scene" or a "slice of life?"
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mary rosenblum
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A slice of life has no
character change.
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mary rosenblum
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Character change is what
determines 'story'.
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mary rosenblum
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By the end of that story, even
if it is 1000 words long, the character is in some internal way different
than he/she was at the end.
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mary rosenblum
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You can write a 'story' with a
great external plot...a fierce swordfight that our hero must win...
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mary rosenblum
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but if he's the same guy at
the end, it's not much of a story, more a scene.
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owlybear
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When getting critiques from
several people, I find that some of them miss the point you're trying to
get across. Everyone seems to have ttheir own opinion as to how your story
should be written, depending on how they write. It baffles me at times.
Should I just carrry on to project my own idea? Some of the suggestions are
helpful, but others seem like they're out in left field.
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mary rosenblum
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This is always the tough part
of critiques, owly.
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mary rosenblum
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And it's something to remember
when you get those rejections. Fiction is a subjective thing.
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mary rosenblum
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What I love, another writer or
editor may not love. So you have to take the criticism within the context
of who is giving it.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...if you find that three
or more people say similar things...listen to 'em!
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bjrpark
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is there a preffered word count
for shorts?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, bjr, the preferred count
is SHORT if you are unpublished. :-) You are more likely to sell a shorter
story than a novella as a new writer, BUT...
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mary rosenblum
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if you write a dynamite
novella, you'll sell it. Ted Chang sold his first story...a novelette or
novella...to the top SF market.
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mary rosenblum
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It happens.
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twhorn
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I thought that a rule of thumb
for short stories... can be read in a single seating
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mary rosenblum
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Well, when I didn't write, I could
read a NOVEL in a single sitting! But there are categories for short
fiction.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're
new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or
the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen,
or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question
to reach me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Short story = 7499 words or
fewer.
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mary rosenblum
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Novelette: 7500 - 17499
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mary rosenblum
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Novella: 17500 - 39,999
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mary rosenblum
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And these are basically useful
for awards...it determines what category you are in.
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mary rosenblum
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Every magazine will have an
upper limit on words.
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tkat_2
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The story flow plan that we were
taught in the beginners course helps me a lot. So does the article plan. Why
aren't these things shown in theWriting for Children and Teenagers course?
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mary rosenblum
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I don't know, tkat. I don't
really have anything to do with any course except the Breaking Into Print
courses for LR.
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bengalrose
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What are some good mags for
character driven Fantasy and SF?
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mary rosenblum
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Bengal, char. driven SF will always sell if it's well
written. I would buy sample issues of the major magazines to see what the
editor seems to like.
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mary rosenblum
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What Gordon likes at F & SF
is not what Ellen Datlow likes at SciFiction and so forth.
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curseofthe44
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I'm sorry, I'm at work & had
to leave for a couple. I need to know if anyone knows IRS info such as
amounts that I need to claim.
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mary rosenblum
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Curse, you can go read the
transcript of my interview with John Caton, CPA. He has a lot of
writer/artist clients (including me) and gave us a LOT of useful details
about all things IRS.
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coway
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I'm in two critique groups and find
I get more nervous critiqueing others work then when I send off one of
mine. IS that normal when you first feel maybe good enough to crit?
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mary rosenblum
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I don't know about that, but I
do know that critiquing other work is one of the best ways to grow and
improve as a writer...IF...you try to determine how to make THAT story
BETTER.
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mary rosenblum
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It is much easier to see
problems and solutions in another's work. The better you get at fixing
other's problems..the sooner you'll be able to see and fix your own story's
problems.
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helen h
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if you are looking at several
publications, is one issue usually sufficient to get a feel for a magazine,
or would a subscription be better? The local libraries don't carry much, especially
fiction. And with the number of magazines out there is can get pricey.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, I find that three issues
is usually a good sample, helen. And often three newstand issues are almost
the same price as a subscription...
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mary rosenblum
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but many libraries have quite
a few magazines. So you might be able to read them there...
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mary rosenblum
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or check used bookstores that
sell that genre. Some of them will sell old issues of the magazines.
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deb1234
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What about a vampire love story?
Vampire (obvious), love story because she only snacks on her victims and
falls in love with one.
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mary rosenblum
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You can do that, deb, but you
know, it's a good idea to read what you want to write about...
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mary rosenblum
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a LOT of vampire stuff
has been published. Some things get done so often that they become
'cliches'.
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mary rosenblum
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You see that a lot when non SF
readers try SF for the first time. :-)
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coway
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Even B & N and Books a Milion
dont carry some the the SF mags!
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, the distribution network
for books went through a major shakeup a couple of years ago...
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mary rosenblum
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it's virtually a monopoly
now..and the distributor is no longer distributing magazines to many
bookstores.
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curseofthe44
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What do you do if you can't
afford to buy all these magazines to get a feel for them?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, three copies really
isn't a huge cash outlay, curse. It should be under 10 and sometimes you're
simply stuck spending money, even if you keep it to the minimum.
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mary rosenblum
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I hear what you're saying...
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mary rosenblum
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don't forget, I've been a self
supporting writer for a long time and was a single mom with kids and no day
job.
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mary rosenblum
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You can try your library, you
can check rummage sales and used book stores...
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mary rosenblum
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but ultimately decide which
magazine sounds like a good market, bite the bullet and buy the issues.
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bjrpark
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Can a good charac. driven plot
be in any of several genres?
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mary rosenblum
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Character driven fiction is
hard to write and relatively rare. Editors in nearly ALL genres love it.
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t green
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for all those worried about the high
price of magazines... one could try on line at half.com or even the bargain
dept. at amazon
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mary rosenblum
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Yes.
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mary rosenblum
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Or if you know someone who
subscribes, ask for back issues.
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mary rosenblum
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I get quite a few NF mags that
way.
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bjrpark
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What is good charac. driven
plot? Can you describe it?
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mary rosenblum
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Good question, brj..'character
driven' is one of those terms we throw around a lot and often fail to
define.
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mary rosenblum
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Character driven fiction is a story
where it is the character's success or failure that drives the story...
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mary rosenblum
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rather than external
situations or events. Which means that the reader has to care a lot about
that person and the author...
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mary rosenblum
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therefore has to create a
character who is utterly real to the reader.
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mary rosenblum
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That is what makes it hard.
Deep, three-dimensional characters are not easy to do, especially in a
limited 'word space'.
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anne shiever of ks
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Mary, with all the time you spend
with these sensational classes, have you ever had authors who you raised to
star-dome with your excellent skills, or have criticed their work
especially with short stories
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mary rosenblum
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I'm laughing, anne. I don't know
about 'stardom' but a lot of people I've worked with have published and are
publishing regularly. In fact, one person I have worked with in the past...
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mary rosenblum
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now has a book in with the
same editor I do (we're not competing...different imprints)..which is WAY
cool.
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bjrpark
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Versus plot driven I mean
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mary rosenblum
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Didn't see that part, bjr...
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mary rosenblum
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Plot driven fiction is a story
where the resolution of the external events is the driving force of the
story.
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mary rosenblum
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You see it in a lot of Analog
stories, since I gather you're an SF reader.
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mary rosenblum
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That is the story where
discovering the tech problem is the big crisis and resolution..
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mary rosenblum
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Essentially, if you could replace
these characters with other characters and the story would still work...
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mary rosenblum
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it is plot driven.
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mary rosenblum
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If you cannot replace the
characters and have the same story, it is character driven.
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coway
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I have strong character with I
hope a strong plot,,is that okay?
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mary rosenblum
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That's the ideal, coway. :-)
That's what we all strive for!
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speckledorf
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Another idea is to swap copies
with writer friends....would only cost postage.
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mary rosenblum
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Ooooh, great idea, speck!
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mary rosenblum
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Hmmm...I'll have to think up a
way to set that up on the website...
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curseofthe44
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I've been told (by editors) that
plot driven is considered "classic." Most editors want character driven
stories now.
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mary rosenblum
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As far as I know, ALL editors
want strong characters. Some editors have a stronger desire for a powerful
plot than others.
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mary rosenblum
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Stan Schmidt, for example, really
wants a central science plot for his Analog stories, even though he likes
strong characters.
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mary rosenblum
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Ellen Datlow is less demanding
of plot, if the character carries the story.
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bjrpark
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Is the market for short fiction
good these days v. NF?
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mary rosenblum
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The market for NF outstrips
the F market in all categories by about two orders of magnitude, bjr!
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mary rosenblum
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You CAN make a living writing
NF. You probably will never entirely make your living writing fiction.
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roe
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many county librarires will get
the mags from other libraires if you request it
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mary rosenblum
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It is indeed worth talking to
your librarian.
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mary rosenblum
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We are forgetting they exist with
the internet and Google, but they know a lot of stuff that can help you.
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curseofthe44
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It seems to me that many writers
are selling for low paying amounts, which kills the market.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, yes and no, curse. The
larger magazines pay top rate in the field because they want the top
authors.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm not going to send a story
off to a market that pays a penny a word. Sorry. I do have bills to pay.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...writers are more like heron
addicts than sound and rational human beings.
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mary rosenblum
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We would never WORK for the
lousy pay we get, but we'll WRITE for it...mainly because we can't NOT
write.
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mary rosenblum
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So we do shoot ourselves in the
foot. Face it. If a good income is important to you, go learn to be a
plumber.
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mary rosenblum
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You won't get it by writing
unless you are one of the 'brass-ring' success stories like Rowling or
King.
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curseofthe44
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Exactly, but when a writer is just
starting out, the low-paying, non-paying are great places to start.
Unfortunately, the low-paying seems to be getting lower and lower.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, the bottom market has
always been 'copies' curse. That hasn't changed. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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In fact, more of the small
zines are actually paying cash...even if it's a pittance...than when I
started out. Go figure.
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curseofthe44
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My local libraries don't carry
much fiction magazines.
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mary rosenblum
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Alas, many don't. I'll see if I
can't put together a 'magazine exchange' for the website.
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bjrpark
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How important is research in
your story regardless of genre?
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mary rosenblum
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Critical, bjr.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't need to be an expert,
but your facts need to be just that...facts.
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mary rosenblum
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Getting details wrong throws
readers completely out of your story.
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mary rosenblum
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Research is another iceberg
thing...You create an iceberg of research but only the tip shows up in teh
story.
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mary rosenblum
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The rest is below the water
line, but must be there in order for the tip to float!
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bjrpark
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Isn't the penny a word market a
good place to start though?
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mary rosenblum
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It's a GREAT place to start,
bjr.
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mary rosenblum
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I didn't mean to sound snotty,
but I have worked hard to make my name something with sales value. If I
don't sell a story today, I'll sell it eventually. For the top pro rate.
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mary rosenblum
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Fiction rates vary from 0 to
10 cents a word, for the most part.
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mary rosenblum
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Short fiction, not novel!
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mary rosenblum
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Nonfiction in small press can
pay as little as fiction, but in the 'glossies'..the large circulation
mags, it starts at a buck a word.
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bjrpark
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But you don't study rocket
science to write Sci-fi do you?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure I do, bjr. I study
everything I write about and I'm a hard SF writer, so I write about a lot
of tech.
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mary rosenblum
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I don't need to be an expert
in it, but I have to know how the science works.
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mary rosenblum
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Right now, I have three books
I'm going through on 'crowd science' and the new RFID technology.
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mary rosenblum
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I probably bought and read about
10 books/journals on orbital technology for the novel I just finished.
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mary rosenblum
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And spent TONS of time at NASA
websites making contacts and acquiring info.
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curseofthe44
|
Mary, you are absolutely
correct. Rocket science is very important. In fact, I learned that many UFO
sightings are directly related to shuttle experiments.
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mary rosenblum
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Lalughing. And many other
events, too.! :-)
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coway
|
I researched before sending off assignment
four assignment, Sf,,instructor surprised me by noting she liked the way I
adfed in the scientific part
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mary rosenblum
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Good, coway!
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anne shiever of ks
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Do you think that is because there
are more and more publishing options for people with ebooks, etc so the
authors sell for less just to get their work out on the markets?
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mary rosenblum
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There ARE more markets, anne,
the ezine and ebook markets are really proliferating.
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mary rosenblum
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And writers, myself included,
have ALWAYS been willing to sell for whatever in order to break in.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember...your name only has
value if you publish regularly. To start with, you do whatever it takes to
get your name in front of the public and develop fans.
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mary rosenblum
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To go back to research for a
bit...
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mary rosenblum
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you do need to get the details
in your story right. IN order to do that, you will have to know a lot
more...
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mary rosenblum
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but you don't have to know
everything.
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anne shiever of ks
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So in a sense to become a good
author of a short story, one needs to be compelled to become a great
reader, too with all the research involved in the story
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mary rosenblum
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Well, you'd better be a reader
if you want to write, period! LOL But some stories take more research than
others. I just finished a dark magic realism story...
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mary rosenblum
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set in a public park that took
no reasearch at all, other than my personal experience with human beings.
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bjrpark
|
Did you start writing with
becoming a fiction writer in mind
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mary rosenblum
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Sure did. I do nonfiction and
I'm good at it, but it's work. Fiction is never work.
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catlady
|
At what point do have a name? How
often do you need to
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catlady
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publish before you can bargain
for more pay?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, cat, it depends on where
you publish and how often.
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mary rosenblum
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I started publishing in Asimov's,
the top sf market...and had stories in it several times a year...
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mary rosenblum
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so I got a lot of critical
attention from reviewers and built a reputation very quickly.
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mary rosenblum
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If you start publishing in
small press markets with few readers, you will have to publihsh more
stories...
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mary rosenblum
|
and what will happen is that
you will begin to sell to larger and larger mags...
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mary rosenblum
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and thus get more and more fans,
until YOU get asked for stories instead of the other way around.
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mary rosenblum
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And yes, I DO get asked for
stories. Promised two at this last conference...one to Stan Schmidt at
Analog...
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mary rosenblum
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and another to an author who
is putting together a theme anthology and wanted some 'names' to interest a
publisher.
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curseofthe44
|
So, basically, if you love to
write, then what you sell for is not, or should not, be a MAJOR factor
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mary rosenblum
|
Well, if it IS a major factor,
curse, you probalby won't last long. :-) None of us EVER work out our
hourly wage!
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mary rosenblum
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It would be too depressing.
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anne shiever of ks
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There are hundreds of publishers
out there and I have found that what one won't consider another one may. It
just depends on how serious you want this type of career to happen, and
then you plunge steadily forward with great vigor
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, Anne. Fiction is
subjective and a rejection is 'no thanks' not 'you're awful'.
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mary rosenblum
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If I don't sell here, I'll
sell there...
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curseofthe44
|
Does it create problems when you
write in different genres? I am currently published in two anthologies (my
first), but they have nothing to do with my heart's desire--SF
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mary rosenblum
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Nah. I write in nearly all
genres. Published fiction will impress across genres, don't worry.
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patchworkcat
|
We write because we love to
write. Getting our stuff published is just a bonus.
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mary rosenblum
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Lilke I said, patch..we have a
lot in common with heroin addicts! LOL
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anne shiever of ks
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How do you feel about
anthologies, Mary, where several authors are published by one publisher???
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mary rosenblum
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I love them. They really expand
the short fiction market AND you will get royalties as long as the book is
in print.
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mary rosenblum
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I have made as much through
antholgies with a couple of stories as I would have received as a novel
advance.
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coway
|
would sending to Reader's Digest
a short on book be aiming too high if not published?
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mary rosenblum
|
Readers Digest buys a lot from
unpublished authors, coway, but only in certain categories.
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curseofthe44
|
How hard is it to publish your
own collection of short stories?
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mary rosenblum
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Nearly impossible unless your
name will sell it, curse.
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anne shiever of ks
|
Mary, do you have a particular
publisher that does anthologies who you highly recommend for a beginner
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mary rosenblum
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Let me explain how anthologies
worki.
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mary rosenblum
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Mostly, publishers don't DO
anthologies.
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mary rosenblum
|
An editor...often a writer
rather than a pro editor...will put together a proposal for a theme
anthology.
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mary rosenblum
|
It will include a proposal for
the theme and a list of authors..known names...who have committed to
contributing a story.
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mary rosenblum
|
The 'names' will sell the
anthology. The editor pitches it to publilshers and eventually sells it...
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mary rosenblum
|
Then the anthology is opened
to other writers, unpublished, pros, everyone...until the empty 'slots' are
filled.
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mary rosenblum
|
Marty Greenberg does a LOT of
fantasy and SF anthologies. Good ones.
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curseofthe44
|
My stories are published through
"Haunted Encounters." These are various true tales of the
supernatural.
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mary rosenblum
|
That sounds like a series
anthology, curse. That is the other type of anthology...
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mary rosenblum
|
'Polyphony' edited by my guest
on Thursday, Jay Lake, is one of those.
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mary rosenblum
|
It is published on a regular
schedule..yearly, as I recall...and he reads for it and buys stories to
fill it.
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mary rosenblum
|
It is published by Wheatland
Press.
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curseofthe44
|
"Haunted Encounters" has
several anthologies now.
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sailor
|
Do editors read competing mags?
If I publish repeatedly in one mag, might competing editor recognize my
name if I submit there?
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mary rosenblum
|
I'm laughing, sailor. You BET they
do. And they talk about their authors with each other at cons. They're all
friends...
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mary rosenblum
|
Which is why you are often
known by several editors long before you sell your first story.
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mary rosenblum
|
Are you listening all?
Remember this when you get your next rejection.
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mary rosenblum
|
At cons, editors will ask each
other..'hey, are you getting stories by this writer? She' s not bad...
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mary rosenblum
|
did you see the one about the
haunted tree?"
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mary rosenblum
|
I kid you not. I've been in on
some of these. And btw, several editors expect me to tip them on promising
students I have, so they can keep an eye on em.
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mary rosenblum
|
And I do.
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mary rosenblum
|
So those submissions are helping
you even if you don't sell em.
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curseofthe44
|
So, if you write something
terrible, it could curse you from the start?
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mary rosenblum
|
Not one blooper. We all do it.
But yeah, if you send out stuff you know isn't good...
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mary rosenblum
|
you ARE making a name for
yourself. One you don't want. Make sure your work is as good as it can be
and then send it out.
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mary rosenblum
|
Okay, I really do need to
catch up on student ms, now.!
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anne shiever of ks
|
Mary, is that the free class worksheet
that they send out to you first or is that a class you offer separately
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mary rosenblum
|
Anne, I was talking about my
LR students.
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anne shiever of ks
|
Thus if you want it bad enough, your
dream will come true and to keep it alive, you must keep trying to sell
your work and let the public know you exist
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mary rosenblum
|
Yep. That's it. Stubborn
obessiveness is a virtue. :-)
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mary rosenblum
|
I'll post this in writing
craft: forum transcripts.
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|
mary rosenblum
|
Do drop in to our casual chat
here tomorrow, same time same place.
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|
mary rosenblum
|
It's not formal...just
conversation.
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mary rosenblum
|
I should be there.
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anne shiever of ks
|
That's me...stubborn obsessiveness
LOL
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mary rosenblum
|
Well, there you go! You're all
set.
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|
mary rosenblum
|
Have a good day, all!
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