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mary rosenblum
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Hello all.
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you've had a good week!
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
conflict. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and
will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask
and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for
you
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted to talk a bit about
conflict today, since a lot of novice writers have trouble figuring out
just what makes a conflict work for a story...
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mary rosenblum
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and as we all know, conflict
is the heart of story.
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mary rosenblum
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Story, as opposed to a 'slice
of life' or 'vignette' piece contains two things:
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mary rosenblum
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A problem that the main
character seeks to overcome and either succeeds or fails to overcome..
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mary rosenblum
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and a change in that
character...the real hallmark of story.
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mary rosenblum
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The question is...when is the
conflict strong enough to power the story?
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mary rosenblum
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That conflict is the heart of
your story.
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mary rosenblum
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You want a good strong
heartbeat.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT many novices err on the
side of 'too strong', trying for a real earthshaking plot to drive a short
story and then...
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mary rosenblum
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ending up with a story that
reads like the summary of a novel.
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mary rosenblum
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What is hard to determine when
you are first starting out is exactly what makes a conflict strong enough.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
conflict. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and
will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask
and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for
you
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mary rosenblum
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You don't need to have your
character try to save the world....especially in a short story!
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mary rosenblum
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Too many new writers get hung
up by trying to come up with a conflict that has 'never been done'.
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mary rosenblum
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Or one that is so huge that
it's going to really compel those readers!
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mary rosenblum
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And rarely is the conflict
what compels the reader...at least not alone. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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The only thing to worry about
is....does the conflict matter to the reade.
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mary rosenblum
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Will the reader refuse to put
the story aside until the conflict is resolved?
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mary rosenblum
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But doesn't that mean your
conflict has to be huge and earthshaking?
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mary rosenblum
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Not at all.
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mary rosenblum
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Conflict is always related to
character.
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mary rosenblum
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If your reader cares about
your character, then even a small, personal conflict in your character's
life will matter to your reader.
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mary rosenblum
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YOur conflict can be
obvious...a muder has been committed and the MC has to figure out who did
it...
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mary rosenblum
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or it can be more internal and
subtle. The MC doesn't get along with his father and unless they get it
straightened out, his life will be warped.
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mary rosenblum
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Mystery conflicts are used in
all genres.
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mary rosenblum
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Our MC has to find something
out...what happened to his birth sister when the kids were placed in an
orphanage...
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mary rosenblum
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how did Mom really die...
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mary rosenblum
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that sort of thing.
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mary rosenblum
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Usually they are paired with a
character conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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Pairing an internal
(character) conflict with an external conflict give you the most power in
your dramatic arc.
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wolf122
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What grabs hard-core fans of a
genre more--the character or the conflict?
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mary rosenblum
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There is no single answer
here, wolf, any more than there is a 'typical' reader.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu have readers who love
characters.
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mary rosenblum
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You have readers who love a
strong 'gee whiz' plot.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu will find the readers who
love your way of writing.
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mary rosenblum
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Some imprints in publishing
run to 'plot driven' (external conflict) stories and others tend to run
more to 'character driven' or internal conflict stories...
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mary rosenblum
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but that only has bearing on
where you should send your query letters.
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mary rosenblum
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You will generally do better
to pair an internal and external conflict even in your short stories.
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mary rosenblum
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And certainly in your novel.
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mary rosenblum
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And especially in short
stories and the newish genre of 'flash fiction' conflicts can be internal
and very subtle.
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mary rosenblum
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It's not hard to find
conflict! The world is full of it. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Open up your daily paper.
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mary rosenblum
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An excellent exercise for you
as a writer..
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mary rosenblum
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is to set the timer for
fifteen minutes every day and see how many plot ideas you can get...
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mary rosenblum
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from a couple of pages of your
daily paper.
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mary rosenblum
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Learning to recognize
conflicts that can drive plots is a skill you can improve..
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mary rosenblum
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just a you build muscle by
lifting weights
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lore alley
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Most of my stories are character
driven and although I do pair internal and external conflict, the internal
is usually more important. How do I make sure it's strong enough?
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mary rosenblum
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Internal conflict depends
ENTIRELY on the reader caring enough about the characters that their
success or failure matters.
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mary rosenblum
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Your conflict will be strong
enough ONLY if the characters are real to us and we care about their
futures.
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mary rosenblum
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Once readers care about your
characters and they are real, even a tiny conflict matters because it
matters to your characters and THEY matter to us. There's the key.
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mary rosenblum
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For an external conflict, it
needs to be clever.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers are beguiled by
putting clues together in a race to see if they can assemble the picture
before the author presents it to them.
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mary rosenblum
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That operates in mystery,
mainstream...any story where we don't really identify deeply with the
characters.
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mary rosenblum
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Look at O'Henry as an example.
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mary rosenblum
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While his characters are
vividly drawn, we don't really become intimate with them.
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mary rosenblum
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And it is the cool twist at
the end of many of this stories that makes his fiction really work.
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mary rosenblum
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So what makes a conflict
strong or weak?
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
conflict. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and
will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask
and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for
you
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starr r
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I read that the O.Henry type
ending is falling out of favor. What do you think?
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mary rosenblum
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It has never been really in
favor unless you do it as well as O'Henry did it. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Those are called punchline
stories or twist ending stories...
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mary rosenblum
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and they can be quite trivial.
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lore alley
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so are there genres that focus
mainly on character driven stories, or is that more dependent on the
particular author or publisher?
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mary rosenblum
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Nearly every genre LOVES
character driven stories because they tend to be more successful with
readers...
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mary rosenblum
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but they are quite rare.
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mary rosenblum
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It is much harder to write a
character driven story...a good one...
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mary rosenblum
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and many many writers do not.
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mary rosenblum
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If you write strong, character
driven fiction it is a BIG plus.
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mary rosenblum
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Literary fiction does tend to
...as a generalization here...distance readers from teh characters and
rather examine them under the lense of the author's eye...
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mary rosenblum
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but that's the only one I can
think of where it seems to be less than sought after.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT....literary fiction tends
to be funded by university rather than readers willing to pay to read. :-)
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starr r
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So we should just forget about
trying for "the twist at the end?"
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mary rosenblum
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Of course not. I have a twist
end story in the '04 BEst of the Year's SF anthology.
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mary rosenblum
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Just do it well.
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lore alley
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so how do you create characters
that will lend themselves to strong internal conflicts? (or is that a whole
'nother topic? LOL)
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mary rosenblum
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That IS the topic of this
forum, LOL. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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You give your character a
problem.
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mary rosenblum
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And...ah, here's the key....
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mary rosenblum
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you make your conflict
important to that character and you make that character matter to the
reader.
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mary rosenblum
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Then you're home free.
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mary rosenblum
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As to internal conflict, let's
look at two characters...
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mary rosenblum
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We have a woman who had a nice
middle class upbringing, knew she wanted to be a housewife and raise six
kids, got good grades in HS and...
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mary rosenblum
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did band, clubs, is well
socialized with loving, supportive parents.
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mary rosenblum
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Now we have a girl whose
single mother went through a bunch of boyfriends, some of whom tried real
hard to get into bed with the daughter...
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mary rosenblum
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her best friend was diagnosed
with AIDS and is dying and lives in her basement because his dad kicked him
out...
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mary rosenblum
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and she thinks she's pregnant.
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mary rosenblum
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Clearly internal conflict is
going to be VERY easy with character two.
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mary rosenblum
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She is fraught with it! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Give your characters flaws.
They are not perfect.
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mary rosenblum
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They are not well adjusted
middle class stereotypes.
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mary rosenblum
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They have a past.
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mary rosenblum
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They have a history.
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mary rosenblum
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They have weaknesses that
really need to be fixed in order for them to be whole.
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mary rosenblum
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AND...
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mary rosenblum
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you can strengthen a weak
external conflict through your character.
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mary rosenblum
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I got a story from a student
with a nice solid story arc.
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mary rosenblum
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Woman is being blackmailed.
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mary rosenblum
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BUt...what is she being
blackmailed for?
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mary rosenblum
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Someone took pictures of her
wearing a bikini when she was in college and on the beach. Now she's a
respectable middle aged wife of a lawyer.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, with nothing else to
back it up, it's a weak conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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She wasn't naked, she wasn't
cavorting with another man while married...
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mary rosenblum
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there's not really enough here
to compel the reader.
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mary rosenblum
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So she needs to up the ante.
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mary rosenblum
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She could do it of course, by
changing that bikini. Now she is cavorting with another man, she's naked
and doing a porn pose for a prank...
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mary rosenblum
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you could find external
reasons to make this stronger...OR...
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mary rosenblum
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you could make it internal.
Hubby is very straightlaced. He'll come unglued. He has a terrible temper.
He has a real jealousy problem.
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mary rosenblum
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And because she has become a
real person and this blackmail will hurt her, it becomes important to us
even though we might personally think...
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mary rosenblum
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that bikini pictures are
pretty silly reasons to blackmail someone. But for HER they are not.
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mary rosenblum
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So the trivial conflict
becomes critical because it is critical to the MC and we care about her.
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seigfried007
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Not unless he's in an Islamic
community
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mary rosenblum
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That's another external plot
element. There are others. :-)
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lore alley
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so is it possible to have strong
internal conflict with a (not perfect of course but) pretty well adjusted
character with no life threatening flaws, or are is he going to need an
external conflict to kick him into action?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, your well adjusted
character is going to have to have some weakness in order to HAVE a
conflict, lore. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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If she's perfectly balanced
and adjusted she'll simply deal with everything you throw her way
competently.
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roe
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maybe he's a minister in a very
strict religion and maybe it's skimpier than a bikini and maybe she was
horsing around with men
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mary rosenblum
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That's another external
conflict you could develop.
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lore alley
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but with the jealous hubby, is
that internal or external? I thought it would be external because it's the
hubby's beliefs/actions that are going to cause her a problem.
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mary rosenblum
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Well it's more internal
because why has she stayed with a man who flies into a rage for such a
trivial reason?
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mary rosenblum
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This is actually a common
mistake a lot of writers use...creating an abusive spouse and using it as
an external plot element...
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mary rosenblum
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when it really is internal.
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mary rosenblum
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Why is she still there? What
is it that makes her stick out the abuse?
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mary rosenblum
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External plot elements arise
from events beyond the character's control.
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mary rosenblum
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Internal conflicts arise from
the characters own choices or inability to choose.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
conflict. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and
will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask
and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for
you
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mary rosenblum
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Getting stranded in the
wilderness is an external plot element.
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mary rosenblum
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You didn't have much choice.
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mary rosenblum
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Needing to stand up to your
overbearing father is an internal conflict.
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t green
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So, would a girl stuck in a
small town with her alcoholic uncle who longs to escape but can't - because
she's afraid to leave - would this be an internal conflict?
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mary rosenblum
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The being afraid to leave is
the internal conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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The alcoholic uncle and his
behavior are the external.
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lore alley
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so if something happens to a
character that he or she could have prevented, it's not external but
internal?
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mary rosenblum
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Tends to be, lore.
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mary rosenblum
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If the abused wife accepts
that abuse, her willingness to do so, her fear of leaving, are internal.
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mary rosenblum
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The abuse is the external
conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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Often they are two sides of
the same coin...
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mary rosenblum
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like t green's example.
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mary rosenblum
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And the abused wife example.
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mary rosenblum
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But not always.
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mary rosenblum
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In Hatchet, the very powerful
YA about the kid stranded in the wilderness...
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mary rosenblum
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the external conflict is
survival of course, but internally, the kid does some coming to terms with
himself that he needs to do.
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senicynt
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Hi mary, Let's see if I can get
this answered befoire it boots me :-) I want to write a short story about a
kindergar\ten child walking home from school when an old man tries to coax
her into the car with candy. Should I start with mom admonishing her in the
morning not to accept candy from strangers, or would it be better to write
it from the childs point of view as she wanders home, expressing her fear
of the man, etc.
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mary rosenblum
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Who are your readers, sen? If
they're kids, I suspect they'll pay more attention to a peer than yet
another lecture from a grown up. I"d use the kid POV.
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info
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what if the girl does try to
escape the alcoholic uncle only to be 'recaptured' by the uncle? Would that
be external and out of her control?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes.
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mary rosenblum
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And actually, thriller is one
genre where the emphasis is on the external plot..
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mary rosenblum
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although there are generally
some internal plot elements.
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lore alley
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so a character that seems well
adjusted but is mired in other peoples problems would probably not be as
well adjusted as he seems, and that in itself would be an internal
conflict?
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mary rosenblum
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Aha, lore. Many seemingly
'well adjusted' people are rife with internal conflicts. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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'Well adjusted' is pretty much
a matter of 'behing as expected'.
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mary rosenblum
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oops...behaving as expected.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
conflict. I've published seven novels and more than 60 short stories and
will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to
ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask
and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for
you
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mary rosenblum
|
You can strengthen a thin
external conflict...
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mary rosenblum
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by making that seemingly
trivial conflict VERY important to a character we care about.
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mary rosenblum
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The weakest stories are where
the external conflict has to carry the entire story...
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mary rosenblum
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and there is no internal
conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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While you CAN pull it off,
generally, it gives you something along the lines of the old fashioned
comic book or the 'Conan the Barbarian' stories (which a friend of mine
used to write) where it's all sword fights and chase scenes. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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(And Steve calls them Conan
the Mortgage Payment, Conan the College Tuition... you get the drift).
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mary rosenblum
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If your readers don't care
much about your characters, if they are only cardboard...
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mary rosenblum
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then you will have to work a
lot harder to give us a conflict that is powerful enough to hold our
attention.
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lore alley
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sorry if these are silly
questions! :-) so if the external conflict is driving the character's
internal conflict, would that be a plot driven story as opposed to
character driven? and if the character is causing the external events would
that be character driven?
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mary rosenblum
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It's not really that cut and
dried, lore, and no, it's not a silly question at all.
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mary rosenblum
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What determines 'plot driven'
and 'character driven' is simply a matter of...
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mary rosenblum
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which plot is the main
one...which is the stronger, external or internal?
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mary rosenblum
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Which one satisfies the reader
more?
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mary rosenblum
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A lot of this has to do with
how good you are at creating realistic characters, too.
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mary rosenblum
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If the external plot is not
all that compelling, but the character we come to love gets 'fixed', then
it's a character driven story.
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mary rosenblum
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If the character is
interesting and his/her problem gets taken care of, but the external
conflict is more interesting, then it's a plot driven story.
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mary rosenblum
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I do both, actually, and I do
them quite consciously. :-)
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lore alley
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okay, thanks Mary! I guess it's
not as complicated as I'm making it...
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mary rosenblum
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Probably not, Lore. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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It's normally something you
are going to decide AFTER you write a story.
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mary rosenblum
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Me, I can be pretty sure which
form I"m doing from the get-go, but I've had a LOT more practice at
this than you have...
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mary rosenblum
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and I couldn't when I was at
your stage of experience.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't worry about it before
you start writing for heaven's sake!
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...if your conflict seems
weak, the story just doesn't seem to have the impact that you hoped it
would...
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mary rosenblum
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see if you can't 'fix' the
conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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We did it for the 'bikini'
example.
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mary rosenblum
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You all came up with some good
suggestions; Make the family Islamic, give him a jealous temper, make it
less than a bikini.
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mary rosenblum
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All three of these suggestions
would have sharpened that conflict and made the stakes higher.
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mary rosenblum
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If you're not sure your
conflict is strong enough, ask yourself, 'what does my character have to
lose here?"
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mary rosenblum
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A lot of thin 'action
adventure stories', like Conan for example, rely on that external plot only
because hey, life is a LOT to lose and the characters are constantly
threatened with death.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...the real key here is to
remember that reader identification is important. While we can sort of
imagine someone chasing us iwht a spear or a gun, most of us haven't ever
...
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mary rosenblum
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experienced anything like
that, so it's very unreal. But if you couple that with an internal problem
that most of your readers have experienced at least a bit...
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mary rosenblum
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a sense of personal failure,
loss of a loved one...something like that...
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mary rosenblum
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THAT will seem real and that
'reality' will tint that external plot, making us believe more in that life
and death situation.
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mary rosenblum
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Reason number 435 for why you
should work on creating strong and realistic characters.
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starr r
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You keep saying, Make the Rdr
care about your characters. But how do we do that?
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mary rosenblum
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YOu make them seem real,
starr.
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mary rosenblum
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It takes practice.
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mary rosenblum
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And it's not something I can
explain how to do in twenty five words or less.
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mary rosenblum
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We've had some forums on it,
and there are quite a few articles in Character Development on the website
(in writing craft)..
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mary rosenblum
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that will show you some
techniques to do that.
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tolkienlvr
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Mary, I have in mind in
interesting, realistic character with good internal conflict, but am having
difficulty adding an external conflict that is not too complicated that
matches the internal conflict. (YA novel-length). Are ther any (more) hands
on brainstorming/plotting activites you would recommend to help me sort out
my plot?
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mary rosenblum
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Think about what your
character need to fix in order to resolve that internal conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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How might that happen?
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mary rosenblum
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Now what situation can you
create that will force that to happen?
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mary rosenblum
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For example, if your MC is
short of selfempowerment...
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mary rosenblum
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you can put him/her into a
situation where that character has to take charge and become a leader...]
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mary rosenblum
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even though he/she would
rather not!
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roe
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I have a character who is quite
self- sufficient. but she's in danger of having a miscarriage and suddenly
she wants the mother who annoys the heck out of her. Is that a good enough
fault (for lack of a better word)
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mary rosenblum
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I don't think you're looking
deep enough here, roe.
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mary rosenblum
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This seems pretty natural to
me.
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mary rosenblum
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Where does that self
sufficiency come from?
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mary rosenblum
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Why has she had to push her
mother off to a distance?
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mary rosenblum
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what is she afraid of?
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mary rosenblum
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What is she trying to do?
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mary rosenblum
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Does she see her mother as a
metaphor for everythign she does NOT want to be...
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mary rosenblum
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and suddenly realizes that her
mother has made the best of circumstances beyond her control?
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roe
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actually throughout most of the
story she avoids her mother, is very independent
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mary rosenblum
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Again, the internal conflict
lies deeper than her actions, roe.
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mary rosenblum
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You need to know...and let us
guess...WHY she is doing this.
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mary rosenblum
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What is her mother that she
must be avoided?
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roe
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and yes she doesn't want to be
like her mother
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mary rosenblum
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Why? What does her mother
represent?
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mary rosenblum
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Failure?
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mary rosenblum
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Servitude?
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mary rosenblum
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Submission when daughter does
not plan to submit to life?
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mary rosenblum
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YOu really do end up putting
your character 'on the couch' and playing psychiatrist to them. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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So why do you avoid your
mother, dear?
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mary rosenblum
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What do you see in her? What
do you think of her life?
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mary rosenblum
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Why don't you talk to her?
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roe
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LOL actual her parents are very
wealthy snobby and she doesn't like it. feels her mother neglected her for
chariities and also tried to contorl her life who she dated etc. had to tow
the line meet the right people etc
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mary rosenblum
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Keep digging, roe. :-) That's
the surface. What does she feel deeeep down about that neglect.
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mary rosenblum
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A primal wail of 'you
abandoned me'?
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roe
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so she resented her but then
realized her mother taught her a lot with that charity work especially with
children
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mary rosenblum
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But what you need to reach
down for in order to really power internal conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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and this is why really strong
character-driven fiction is so rare...
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mary rosenblum
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is what it means on the level
that we don't normally aknowlege without the help of a psych person.
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mary rosenblum
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As with your character.
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mary rosenblum
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It can seem petty if she's
just kind of miffed that mom was always busy.
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mary rosenblum
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But if deep down, she felt
abandoned, if that abandoment has colored her relations with others, her
own self awareness (I'm not worth my mother's attention)...
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mary rosenblum
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the only external behavior may
be that she is quiet, kind of a social nerd, and lost in her mother's
shadow.
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mary rosenblum
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Inside she can be really hurt.
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lore alley
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LOL Mary! That's what I was
thinking: I need a psychology degree to write the kind of character-driven
stuff I want to!
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mary rosenblum
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Well, reading books on
psychology won't hurt you one bit, lore. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Mostly you need to think about
what motivates people way deep down under the surface.
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mary rosenblum
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You'll get more reality from
thinking about people you know well.
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mary rosenblum
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Why are they the way they are?
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mary rosenblum
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And that IS why really strong
character driven fiction is less common...many people just don't want to
look that deeply into others.
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mary rosenblum
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It can get pretty dark down
there!
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mary rosenblum
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LOL
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
Oregon hour.
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks for coming all.
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mary rosenblum
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When that next story doesn't
work, see if you can't give it some extra kick by either upping the ante in
the external or internal conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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Good night, all!
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mary rosenblum
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I'll try and be here on Sunday
for our casual chat.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll be at a dog show.
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mary rosenblum
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So I may not make it home in
time...we'll see.
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mary rosenblum
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Ha, seig. I saw that. Satisfy
the external conflict by writing nonfiction.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember...buck a word or
better versus 5 cents a word.
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mary rosenblum
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Ha...better than 'you want
fries with that?'
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sallyk
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Next Thursday is Marilyn Strube?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, that's it, sally.
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mary rosenblum
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Night all!
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post this in Writing
Craft: Forum Transcripts.
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