Forum Transcripts

The Novel Start vs Short Story Start 3/1/05

Event start time:

Tue Mar 01 12:03:34 2005

Event end time:

Tue Mar 01 13:33:29 2005



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello, all!

mary rosenblum

I hope you all had a good weekend. :-)

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about beginnings…short story versus novel. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

I've talked about openings to stories before, but I thought that a direct comparison of novel versus short story beginnings...

mary rosenblum

is worth another visit. One of the most common problems with short stories...

mary rosenblum

crafted by new writers, is the start. When students are struggling with that 1000 word limit for their early assiginments...

mary rosenblum

openings are often a major cause of their frustration with the word limit...

mary rosenblum

even if they're not aware of it.

mary rosenblum

And most of the people trying to write short stories read novels more often than not...

mary rosenblum

so a novel opening is a natural way of beginning.

mary rosenblum

Only it just doesn't work in short form...

mary rosenblum

and a short story beginning is frequently not the best choice for a novel start.

mary rosenblum

Readers have very different expectations from a novel and a short story.

mary rosenblum

What bores a reader in a short story is perfectly fine in a novel.

gbeesley

what is the biggest difference between a novel and short st

mary rosenblum

I'm assuming the rest of your question is 'story opening', bg. :-)

mary rosenblum

Essentially, it is where you start and how you handle back story.

mary rosenblum

And it is a BIG difference.

mary rosenblum

The traditional novel start begins by setting up the background.

mary rosenblum

It can begin in the midst of furious action, or it can open with a scene of everyday life...

mary rosenblum

but it begins BEFORE the first plot event, most of the time.

drakeluvr

How can you tell what kind of opening you have?

mary rosenblum

Well, Drake, once you know what makes a 'novel' start and what makes a 'short story' start, you can probably tell what you have. :-)

mary rosenblum

The fact that you can ...and usually should...begin before the first plot event does not mean you are entitled to bore the reader.

mary rosenblum

That is a very good way to see your book languish on the shelves... or earn quick rejection slips.

mary rosenblum

You need to engage the reader, but you can do that with action or conversation that is interesting...

mary rosenblum

but is designed to introduce the main characters and...

mary rosenblum

build the universe of your story for the reader, including a lot of essential backstory...

mary rosenblum

before the plot commences.

drakeluvr

Can you give an example of each?

mary rosenblum

Yep, I sure will...hang on just a sec.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about beginnings…short story versus novel. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

babbles

all of that advice is for a novel beginnng right mary?

mary rosenblum

Right, babbles..

mary rosenblum

this is how you begin a novel....NOT a short story.

mary rosenblum

By starting before the first plot event, you allow your reader to sort of 'get their feet under them'

mary rosenblum

You can start the main character off with some sort of encounter that gives us some insight into what this person is like and why we should care about him or her...

mary rosenblum

and as he/she interacts with people/events, we'll find out a bit about the world.

mary rosenblum

Even if your story is set in contemporary US, you still need to give us a sense of what universe of family/friends/job/etc your character exists in..

mary rosenblum

and of course, if you are writing one of the speculative fiction genres, you need to create a believable universe from scratch and quickly!

mary rosenblum

Now do not be tempted to try and create the entire universe and tell the reader ALL the back story in great detail...

mary rosenblum

or your opening will be nothing but a huge, unweildy, expository lump. Readers will browse a page or two, nothing will happen, and they'll swap your book for the next one on the shelf with an appealing cover.

wingedwarrior24

do you describe a lot at once or more as you go along?

mary rosenblum

Oh yes, winged. You can build your universe until the middle of the book, that's fine.

mary rosenblum

Just make sure that once your novel begins to build to the climax...you don't have to stop and educate the reader about necessary back story!

mary rosenblum

But let's look now at the short story start.

mary rosenblum

Here you are seriously cramped for words.

mary rosenblum

Even if you're not looking at a short short of 1000 words, but something in the 3000 - 7000 word range, if you have a rich plot...

mary rosenblum

and you plan to create real characters, you need every word.

mary rosenblum

ANd, as I said, short story readers...even those who also read novels...

mary rosenblum

have different expectations.

mary rosenblum

Where a novel reader will probably keep going into chapter two and perhaps three before he/she decides nothing much is going on and quits...

mary rosenblum

most short story readers quit after a few paragraphs if they're bored.

mary rosenblum

You simply shoot yourself in the foot if you try to introduce the character and universe before the plot begins.

gail

I am currently back working on a stubborn S/S...its beginning has a very brief M/C intro before mayhem begins...I'm wondering, given the high-action, what is the very basic amount of background I need to insert to be effective?

mary rosenblum

For example, gail, here, I wouldn't introduce any background at all. None.

mary rosenblum

Hit the ground running with that mayhem.

mary rosenblum

You'll suck your reader right smack into that action.

mary rosenblum

Really work ...after your first draft!...on slipping in as many hints about what is going on as you can while that mayhem is happening.

mary rosenblum

Readers are willing to wait! We love hints as long as you answer our questions sooner rather than later.

mary rosenblum

If we know who our 'good guy' is, a brief thought or two from that character as he fights or runs or whatever...

mary rosenblum

gives us a scatter of clues about what is going on. Dialogue can do that, too.

mary rosenblum

WE don't have to KNOW as long as our guesses aren't too far off the beam..but readers are HOOKED>

mary rosenblum

And as soon as the mayhem is over, you can start inserting more clues about back story.

mary rosenblum

Yes, it's hard to do this, but get good at it. It will sell your short fiction.

gail

Well, that's my instinct, Mary. But, this is "my neolithic tale" (yes, sigh, THAT one!) and I feel I need to at least place my reader in that time and place. Don't I?

mary rosenblum

Sure, but you can place them there with one or two visual details during your mayhem.

mary rosenblum

This is where the ability to use vivid and evocative and SPECIFIC words matters.

mary rosenblum

If we watch the characters do whatever what will show us that this is a neolithic world?

mary rosenblum

Character dress, speech or lack of it, flora and fauna...

mary rosenblum

Readers are quick to put clues together and you certainly don't need many to let readers make a guess...

mary rosenblum

then you confirm that guess when you get a breather.

gail

Yes, I've mentioned the M/C's giving thanks to the Mother Goddess which, I believe, should give a sense of time.

mary rosenblum

Tech will give you more of a sense of time, gail. What are the spear points made of? Stone, right? DO they use throwers or bows? Just spears? Do they use hammer stones? Are dogs lunch or working with humans?

mary rosenblum

There are all kinds of tiny visual clues that can place your story very accurately.

mary rosenblum

The way you handle this kind of start...and of course in SF, Fantasy, and historical fiction, you do it ALL the time...

mary rosenblum

is find two or three visuals that will define the time period for the reader.

mary rosenblum

It might be a space port on Titan for the SF world...details of food and weapons that place this culture in the neolithic...

mary rosenblum

giant ferns and cycads that put us in the Jurassic....

mary rosenblum

or what have you.

mary rosenblum

Then find a way to use those details plausibly.

gail

I am attempting some of the devices you mention. However, I'm wondering just how much I need to insert (re: who, what, where, when, why, & how) to my first scene.

mary rosenblum

VERY little in a short story. Who, a guess at where or when, to be confirmed later, a bare hint of why. That's it.

mary rosenblum

You can do that in two paragraphs of action.

mary rosenblum

In short fiction, readers know to wait for more info.

mary rosenblum

They don't expect it all up front and it makes a boring start if you try to do it.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about beginnings…short story versus novel. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

drakeluvr

lets say you have this 'great' idea, how do you tell if it is something someone else might find interesting?

mary rosenblum

If you like it, others will, drake. You're probably pretty similar in reading tastes to many other folk out there. :-)

mary rosenblum

Best way to find out is to write it and give it to some readers.

mary rosenblum

Their feedback will tell you what works well and where they got lost.

gail

You've confirmed my gut instinct. Thanx Mary. :-)

mary rosenblum

You'd be surprised how little you have to inform the reader in that opening short story scene, gail.

mary rosenblum

We'll wait...just don't make us wait too long!

mary rosenblum

As soon as the mayhem is over, start weaving in the clues.

babbles

my mc (main character) is rising from a stiff hospital chair in the ICU where her mother lays comatose. She then greets her grandparents as they arrive.

mary rosenblum

Well, babbles, is this for a short story or a novel?

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about beginnings…short story versus novel. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

babbles

its my novel

mary rosenblum

Good. :-)

mary rosenblum

That can be a fine start for a novel. You have the potential of conversation between the trio, plus your MC's thoughts to enlighten us as to back story...

mary rosenblum

and you can create a sense of drama from the life support machinery in the room, the MC's distress at the physical changes in her mother... a sense of time running out...

mary rosenblum

so you'll give us a sense of rising drama while we're learning a lot. That makes a good novel start.

sol

Yes, drake. I've needed such advice myself, and it's worth the "risk" to get it in front of the eyes of someone else.

mary rosenblum

oh, it's not a risk. :-)

mary rosenblum

It's highly unlikely that you could write something nobody wants to read. YOu could write it so BADLY that nobody would want to wade through it...but badly is easily fixed...

mary rosenblum

you just get better. :-) That's what you're here for, right?

mary rosenblum

Any story will hold readers if well written...that's what the craft of writing is all about...

mary rosenblum

learning to tell any story well.

drakeluvr

so would this be novel or ss? Harry sat on his bed, in his room on Privet Drive, where he lived with his relatives, the Dursleys. He’s room was a mess with rolls of parchment, spell books, and clothes, not to mention white feathers from when his owl

mary rosenblum

Doesn't one of the HP books actually begin that way? :-)

mary rosenblum

You could start a short story that way if, say, Uncle burst into the room in the next second and the plot started...

mary rosenblum

But it's pretty told.

mary rosenblum

You'd do better to start with Uncle bursting into the room and fill in the 'where' 'why' 'who' as you went.

drakeluvr

don't think so... this is something I was doing for homework :-)

mary rosenblum

Just don't try to publish it... :-) Those characters belong to JDR. But as I said, if you have Uncle burst in and we SEE the the messy room and rolls of parchment and spell books...

mary rosenblum

as uncle rants, we'll figure out that HP lives here and the feathers can flutter around as Uncle yanks Harry off the bed.

mary rosenblum

So you're weaving all those visual clues about where we are into the action which hooks the reader.

mary rosenblum

That is nearly always better than showing the reader the universe and THEN starting the action.

sweett

How effective is a short story start for a novel? Is it good to start as short to hook readers for novel form?

mary rosenblum

That's a very good question, sweet.

mary rosenblum

And since the novel that's coming out STARTS with a short story that has already been published...I have some experience with that. :-)

mary rosenblum

A short story start can indeed work just fine for a novel...with some hard work on your part...while a novel start rarely works well for a short story.

mary rosenblum

What happens in a short story start, remember, is that we leap into action not really knowing where we are...

mary rosenblum

and the author fills in the back story details of who, where, why, when, and how as we move along into the plot.

mary rosenblum

There is no introduction. You can do it just fine, as long as you continue to expand that universe and give more details before you get too far into the story.

mary rosenblum

If you are using dual POV characters it's easier to do. For example, in my novel...

mary rosenblum

the plot and action begins in chapter one...but fairly quickly we switch into the other POV character who has his own agendas...and so it was pretty easy to finish building the world for the reader.

drakeluvr

Only to sites she personally visits. I found out she's flattered by fan fics :-)

mary rosenblum

Oh, that's good, drake. :-) Some authors are NOT and you can earn letters from lawyers! :-)

mary rosenblum

Try really doing a strong action start there. Who knows? If you do a good enough job, she may email you. Never know. :-) It's a goal.

christopher dale

I have a SF short story I have starting n a Moonbase prison. The prisoner complains : "You’d think with all the technology advances in the last 400 years we could make plasti-bunks more comfortable.”

christopher dale

Does that give you a time slice, outsideof the 400 years part?

mary rosenblum

It should do just fine for SF readers, chris.

mary rosenblum

While your charcter really has no reason to think about his 'now' in relation to 'our' now...we'll all assume that we got to the moon in the near future, so that places it pretty well for us.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about beginnings…short story versus novel. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

drakeluvr

a bit off topic, but is there a way to remain in contact with the school, even if one couldn't start the novel course right away?

mary rosenblum

You're doing it, drake. :-) The website is open to everyone.

geezer

I thought I would lead off in my short story with action then use a flashback to show how everything came about. What is a good way to transition into the second scene?

gbeesley

would having action then going back in time work for an ss

mary rosenblum

These questions are pretty similar.

mary rosenblum

Yes, you can do that...start with something really vivid and then let the MC flash back to an earlier event that gives us the backstory.

mary rosenblum

I've seen it done where the character gets knocked unconscious and dreams, or ends the action and falls into a reminiscence brought on by the event...many ways to do it.

mary rosenblum

And it can certainly work. It can be problematical though...

mary rosenblum

and if you can do it another way, you're probably better off trying that first.

mary rosenblum

The reason I say that, is that a flashback stops the forward momentum of the story and sends the reader back in time...and it gives the reader two distinct transitions...

mary rosenblum

that are nice places to 'get off' and close the book if he/she isn't fully engaged.

mary rosenblum

Plus, if your flashback world is more interesting than your 'real' world, readers may quit when they realize that they don't like your real world as much as that past.

mary rosenblum

But if you're starting with strong action and a powerful hint of interesting conflict to come...it can work okay.

mary rosenblum

Flashbacks are useful, but they can be double edged sword, so use with care and intention, not casually or as a shortcut.

jackie7777

So a short story is one big scene

jackie7777

.... and novel is many scenes?

mary rosenblum

Not really, jackie, although that CAN be true.

mary rosenblum

Let me define 'scene'.

mary rosenblum

A scene is a sequence of actions that take place in one continuous stretch of time in one single Point of View.

mary rosenblum

That scene may cover minutes, hours, or even days, if you want to drag us through all those events of living for several days!

mary rosenblum

Each scene should have it's own miniature dramatic arc...rising tension building to a peak and falling off or transitioning to the next scene or chapter.

mary rosenblum

And a chapter can be one scene or multiple scenes.

mary rosenblum

A story can have one scene or many scenes.

mary rosenblum

A short short of 1000 words is probably going to have one scene.

mary rosenblum

A novelette can have many scenes, and some writers even divide novellas into chapters. (I don't).

mary rosenblum

Each scene should ideally do three things:

mary rosenblum

Advance the plot, deepen the characterization, enrich the setting.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about beginnings…short story versus novel. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

And I had a question from Robyn, who couldn't be here today.

mary rosenblum

She wanted to know if a novella should start with a novel or a short story opening.

mary rosenblum

Good question!

mary rosenblum

A novella is LONG.

mary rosenblum

18,000 to 40,000 words. So you can indeed use a novel type of opening for that piece...

mary rosenblum

If your novella is published in an anthology with one or two others, as a stand alone trade paperback, the novel start is fine.

mary rosenblum

If it's going to appear in a magazine with a lot of short stories...you might want to give that opening more of a short story feel, but essentially, yes, you can use a novel opening...

mary rosenblum

just keep it in proportion. Don't devote 10 or 12 pages to introducing your world!

mary rosenblum

Novel: 40,000 +

mary rosenblum

Novella: 17,500 - 39,999 words

mary rosenblum

Novelette: 7500 - 17,499 words

mary rosenblum

Short story: 7499 or fewer words

mary rosenblum

And mostly, these distinctions are used to categorize stoies for awards...

mary rosenblum

they are usually offered for each length.

mary rosenblum

But if a guidelines says it accepts novelettes...

mary rosenblum

then it means under 17,500

sol

About novels again . . . Would a prologue be an exception to the rule of ealier? I recently read a mystery that began BOOM! with the murder but no obvious background.

mary rosenblum

Yes, sol...prologues are NOT beginnings.

mary rosenblum

Realize that a distressingly large number of readers do NOT read 'em.

mary rosenblum

Why? Beats me. But they don't, because i have asked a LOT of readers!

mary rosenblum

Normally, prologues are intentionally a scene taken completely out of context...

mary rosenblum

you have NO clue what is happening, who is good or bad, or why.

mary rosenblum

It is a teaser, meant to whet reader appetite and later on in the book...

mary rosenblum

to provide an 'aha' moment, when you suddenly understand what was going on in the prolugue.

mary rosenblum

Just be careful to make sure that whatever info you provide in that prologue is not necessary to the story.

mary rosenblum

Many readers will skip it and some will forget it by the time its meaning is revealed.

mary rosenblum

I use it to instantly hook a reader with vivid action and/or violence when my opening chapter is fairly low key, without any particular mayhem.

bengalrose

Hi Mary. I'm working on a short story that I think could also be a novel down the road. I have been tinkering with the opening para for a while. Here it is: Ta Ua Tan clutched the arms of the seat with his three-fingered hands as the starliner bounced through the Earth’s atmosphere. He exhaled through the large blowhole at the top of his head. Since returning to normal space five cycles ago – days, the Humans called them days – the mind-numbing vibrations from the thrusters had worn him down. After this journey, even a backward planet like Earth was welcome.

mary rosenblum

That's a perfectly good short story or novel start, bengal.

mary rosenblum

You set up the universe very nicely without answering all our questions,.

mary rosenblum

If I was starting a short story there, I'd lead into the main plot with the next paragraph using action, myself...

mary rosenblum

in a novel, you could let Ta Ua Tan pace and argue and think...whatever you needed to do to give us back story.

wingedwarrior24

Is it ok to go back to the same scene but different events?

mary rosenblum

Well, I"m not sure how you'd do that, winged, unless you switch POV? If John fights through the civil war battle and survives, he has seen and heard everything he could see and hear and so have we, since we're in his POV.

mary rosenblum

If you revisit that scene, you'd almost have to be in someone else's head in order to let us see/hear/know anything different.

mary rosenblum

And do keep in mind that shifting POV in a short story really does tend to distance your readers from the characters.

mary rosenblum

So if your story is strongly plot driven and we don't have to care about the characters...

mary rosenblum

it can work. But if your main character drives the story, this is probably not the best method of dealing with things.

gbeesley

what about using a forward to catch a person up to future

mary rosenblum

Lots of SF does that, gb. Again, you confuse the readers who don't read it...which is THEIR fault for not reading, true...but I hate to confuse readers, myself. :-) So I tend to embed my back story in my first chapter action...or first scene in a short story.

ling630

What about the time changes in a piece of short fiction where there are 3 differnent scenes that you are trying to keep in chronological order ? How do you keep it as a short story or how would you make into a novella?

mary rosenblum

Not necessarily, ling.

mary rosenblum

I've put multiple scenes into fairly short stories...under 7000 words.

mary rosenblum

Just make clean and fast transitions to save yourself words.

mary rosenblum

Don't 'walk us' from scene one to two to three...including pages of transition each time!

mary rosenblum

Remember that you can end a scene, center a * on a skipped line...

mary rosenblum

and leap directly into a new scene, taking care to make the new 'when' or 'where' clear to the reader in the first paragraph.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about beginnings…short story versus novel. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

The biggest problem new writers have with short stories...

mary rosenblum

is knowing where to begin. Usually...most of the time, in fact...you begin way too early, long before you should.

mary rosenblum

I think my first five or six published stories actually had their original front scenes chopped off..

mary rosenblum

because I did the usual thing of starting too soon!

mary rosenblum

Later on, I learned how to begin a story where it needs to begin...

mary rosenblum

which is rarely where I start working out the plot when I'm planning the story.

mary rosenblum

When you're writing a short story draft, don't worry about where to start right now...

mary rosenblum

just write it.

mary rosenblum

After you have finished the first draft, think about that story.

mary rosenblum

Where does the plot ACTUALLY begin?

mary rosenblum

Does it begin with Randor forging a beautiful magic sword?

mary rosenblum

Or does it begin when he finds his wife and child slain by the evil kings' knights?

mary rosenblum

Ask yourself...where can he NOT turn back from the plot?

mary rosenblum

Obviously he can turn back after forging the sword...

mary rosenblum

he has no reason to kill the evil king.

mary rosenblum

But once he finds his family...how can he NOT go on?

mary rosenblum

So while you may love that very cool scene of sparks and magic and white hot forge...

mary rosenblum

maybe it's not the best place to begin...

mary rosenblum

maybe it will work better later, as a flashback.

mary rosenblum

As he contemplates using it on the king?

jackie7777

Start the short story at the scene of the train wreck?

mary rosenblum

That's an excellent idea...

mary rosenblum

or you can start just before the wreck.

mary rosenblum

And the longer the story, the more you CAN begin a bit before the main plot.

mary rosenblum

If our smith and evil king story is a novelette or novella...

mary rosenblum

and actually, this is a story that one of my students has been working on...

mary rosenblum

and it IS a novelette...I HOPE!

mary rosenblum

You CAN start with that forge scene, if the smith then immediately finds his slain family and is off and running...

mary rosenblum

because the magic sword is a major part of the story.

mary rosenblum

It's not just window dressing.

mary rosenblum

If it was going to be a 3000 word story, it would be better to begin with the dead family, heft the sword, remembering that forging of magic, and swear to kill the king.

gail

If my story's fast-pacing is key to its effectiveness, IMHO, should I move through it chronologically rather than use flashbacks that may slow the pace?

mary rosenblum

Obsolutely, gail. You will ALWAYS sacrifice both pace AND tension with a flashback.

mary rosenblum

Which is why I don't use 'em much.

mary rosenblum

Flashbacks are best used if you find no other way to do what you need to do .

mary rosenblum

If we need to see a character in action who is dead or out of the story somehow...

mary rosenblum

a flashback can bring that person back to life.

mary rosenblum

For example, in a romance, if our heroine's lover was lost at sea...

mary rosenblum

and we need to know why she resists the landowner's son for the memory of her dead sailor...

mary rosenblum

we'll need that flashback to show us why he was so wonderful that she can love nobody else.

mary rosenblum

Hmmm..okay...our Friday Forum is going to be on flashback.

gail

Wow...an "always" from you, Mary!

mary rosenblum

Well, there ARE a few, gail. Really. :-)

mary rosenblum

And while I'm not saying that you should NEVER use flashbacks, you WILL do so at a cost. That cost can be worth it, as in my romance example...

mary rosenblum

but the cost can outweigh the benefit, so think about it before you use one.

mary rosenblum

Remember, there are lots of other good ways to show back story.

mary rosenblum

Your MC can talk, remember, read something...

mary rosenblum

For example, I have a story stalled right now because I have to add more back story...

mary rosenblum

and I haven't yet figured out how to do it.

mary rosenblum

A flashback would really ruin it...there's not a lot of action in it as is..so I'll...

mary rosenblum

probably have to introduce a new strong secondary character who can somehow get involved and ask the right questions.

mary rosenblum

Everybody in the story at this point, darn it, knows too much. They have NO reason to bring in back story and the pacing isn't strong enough to allow...

mary rosenblum

me the luxury of letting my character think about the past in great detail. Grr. See what even pros go through? LOL

gail

I love to use dialogue for filling in backstory, setting, characterization, motive, and heck, just about anything. :-)

mary rosenblum

It's a powerful tool...just avoid the 'as we all know, John' conversations.

ling630

I am working on a story about epilepsy. I have a sub plot in it with the father. Is it necessary to keep both or do they need to be different stories completely?

mary rosenblum

Ling that's something you'll have to decide. As long as it works, it's fine. If it distracts the reader too much from the main story, or confuses the reader, then it does not work...

mary rosenblum

and should probably be its own story.

mary rosenblum

Try it as is, give it to some good readers and after they read it...

mary rosenblum

ask them if they understood it, did the subplot get in their way, and so forth.

mary rosenblum

Remember, anything CAN work, not everything WILL work, even if somebody else did it that way.

gail

The story itself seems to dictate the hows of its own telling, don't you find, Mary?

mary rosenblum

Oh definitely, gail. But all too often as beginners, we aren't really able to let the story tell us how it needs to go. Comes with practice. :-)

mary rosenblum

Well, this has been a fun Oregon hour. :-) I'll post the transcript of the Forum in the usual place: Writing Craft, Forum Transcripts.

mary rosenblum

Join us same place and time tomorrow...

mary rosenblum

for our casual chat.

mary rosenblum

We just hang out and talk about writing.

sol

Yeah, that's true. In the beginning I tried so hard to stay with the original 'plan', but now I can get out of the way better.

mary rosenblum

Good for you, sol. That takes some practice, for sure. Beginning writers are very reluctant to make changes..

mary rosenblum

and the more you do it, the more you realize that change is what it's all about.

mary rosenblum

Thanks for coming, all!

mary rosenblum

See you tomorrow for our casual chat!

mary rosenblum

Have a good day!

ling630

What about when writing a story the story begins to take over. What do you do with a story like that? Do you change it or stay with it?

mary rosenblum

Oh, go with it Ling. Never try to put a bridle on your muse. But THEN...

mary rosenblum

when you have finished the first draft...let your muse have her head..

mary rosenblum

THEN go back and put on your editor hat and make it work the best it can.

mary rosenblum

Don't confuse inspiration and editing. They are two different states of mind.

mary rosenblum

Don't mess with the inspiration. Do mess with the editing. :-)

mary rosenblum

Bye all!

 

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