|
mary rosenblum
|
Hello, all!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I hope you had a great
weekend!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is our Tuesday Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
. If you're new here, remember
that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble'
next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a
question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach
me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I wanted to talk about
critiques today...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
specifically how to listen to
a critique, what to use, and what not to use.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
While critiques are incredibly
valuable...you will never see your own work with the objectivity of a
stranger, unless you...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
file it long enough to forget
you wrote it!...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
An reader's reactions to your
work can give you very valuable insight into your own strengths as well as
weaknesses.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
BUT...they can also be
dangerous.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You need to learn when to
listen and when to dismiss the comments of your critiquer.
|
|
realityczech
|
I recently dropped out of my
writing critique group. It got to the point that the critiques were hurting
my writing more than helping. Trying to write for so many diverse opinions
basically made me freeze and loose track of my own voice.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And there, reality, you have
provided me with the perfect example of the dangers of a critque or
critique group.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The danger is that you do
begin to write FOR those critiquers and to try and satisfy them ALL.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I have watched some very
talented novices really lose ground because they were too quick to listen
to everybody...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and by trying to fix
everything everyone suggested, they muddied their own work.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about using a critique. If you're new here, remember that you
need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to
the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question
icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
What you need to remember is
that critiques are meant to help you make THIS story the best it can be.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You are not writing for that
critiquer and it is not your job to please that person.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You know what you want to
achieve...or you need to figure that out in any case...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and that may not be the story
that your critiquer wants you to write.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It is difficult to critique
the story that the writer intends to tell instead of the one you WANT that
writer to tell!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Not all critiquers are that
skilled at critiquing.
|
|
writelegends
|
Is it best to find an objective
critiquer?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, ideally all critiquers
are objective...that's your goal!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But you, the writer, need to
learn to listen to what they say as to how it applies to your story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
rather than listen to them
tell you how to write your story!
|
|
christopher dale
|
Soory I was late - Not sure if
this was mentioned, but... :-) To me a critique is nothing more than one
person's opinion. If 5 critque slam one area, then maybe there is a
problem. If only one critique slams and area, decide if you want to change
it..
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Exactly, Chris.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is a very good rule of
thumb.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I routinely give my work to
another pro who writes and reads SF very differently than I do..
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and he NEVER gets my stories.
He always misses the point.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But he's very good at finding
tech flaws and plot holes and I simply disregard all his other
complaints...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
because he's not reading the
story I'm writing. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But if three readers all say
that they can't figure out why the Main Character acted the way he did...I
have a problem there.
|
|
realityczech
|
How important is genre
familiarity when it comes to critiques? Can someone who hates literary
writing give a legitimate critique of that genre, for example?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It is and it isn't important,
reality.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If I give an SF story to a non
SF reader, I may get good feedback on the characterization, but I'll
probably confuse that reader...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
since SF readers have expectations
and experience in the genre that will allow them to make leaps of
comprehension that my literary reader can't.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But if I write for the non SF
reader, I'll bore SF readers with unnecessary detail.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So use the non-genre-related
comments on plot/character and dont' try to answer all that non-genre
reader's genre quesitons!
|
|
christopher dale
|
And be leary of
"Professional" critquers. Not that ALL are bad, but you are
PAYING someone to tell you what they thought of your work. :-) Not sure I
would go that far, personally....
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Actually, I am flatly negative
about 'professional' as in 'for pay' critques.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you KNOW that a pro gives
good feedback then by all means be willing to pay for a critique.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But there is no license for
hanging out a sign and offering for pay crits.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I know some very well
published pros who can't critique...or teach, which is what a good crit
is...worth beans.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
In fact, I know a couple I
won't put in a writing workshop because they're damaging.
|
|
mbvoelker
|
IMO when you read a critique you
need to combine the same stubbornness of personality that makes you write
in the first place with enough open-mindedness to get the benefit of
whatever good there is in the critique.
|
|
mbvoelker
|
But I also think that its the
critiquer's job to avoid trying to stamp his/her style onto the story and
that makes it easier for me to ignore the irrelevant when I can
"know" that the critiquer didn't do his/her job properly. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's it, mb, and that's a narrow
little fence rail to walk...like so many in this biz!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You need to be able to ignore
what is said, BUT, you need to hear some things you may not want to hear.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is a case where, if one
person tells you that your character seems wrong for the story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
it's a good idea to get a
couple of other opinions before you redo that novel!
|
|
silver571
|
Are all the instructors with LR
good critiquers?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Yes, silver. That is how LR
hires instructors. You get a whole batch of student ms and you have to
write critiques of them.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you're not good at it, you
don't get hired. That is their main criteria.
|
|
silver571
|
It seems I look at the one
negative point and not the 11 good things that is said any suggestions?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is a big danger with
crits...that the comments can be so overwhelming that the story dies.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I do know a very well
published pro who cannot give her work to a critiquer PERIOD.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If someone says ANYTHING other
than 'wonderful', she loses the work.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But she's an extreme case.
Most of us have tougher egos than that...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but do realize that it's
perfectly normal to be resistant or resentful when someone critiques your
baby. :-)
|
|
coway
|
also, I learned sometimes when
you read a critique,,you have to just take it as grain of salt an listen to
your gut feelings about your piece
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Exactly, coway. Sometimes your
reader is simply reading a different story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
BUT...if all your readers say
they don't understand, saying 'Well, you're just stupid' is not the best
route...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
since you may find that nobody
understands the story! Including the editors you send it to!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So listening and not listening
is, as I said, a fence rail you have to walk.
|
|
ladybug
|
Can we specify the critique be
for grammar
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Certainly, ladybug. I have
some students who are ESL speakers or simply have some serious grammar
problems..
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and I routinely suggest they
hire an English major from the local community college to copy edit their
ms.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's what a grammar only
crit is...copy editing.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
However, unless you have
serious grammar or language problems, it's a waste of money.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Unless you're writing
nonfiction.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But in fiction, if the story
moves the editor, she/he will do the copy editing, don't worry.
|
|
writelegends
|
so, in order to get the most
useful critique, should you shop out your MS on a broad scale, rather than
just one or two individuals?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I have found over the years,
that it pays to send your work out to an ever changing series of people.
For example, I send all my work to three readers at least...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but rarely are they the same
three. I swap work with many writers and will choose three whose skills
seem best suited to this work.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you work with the same two
or three people ALL the time, you hear the same things ALL the time.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about using a critique. If you're new here, remember that you
need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to
the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question
icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
christopher dale
|
mty first critique I greceived I
made EVERY change that was recommended BEFORE i recieved any others. Once I
had them in, I re-read my chapter that was critiqued and found it wasn't
the story I was telling. I had to re-write it and relook at what was
|
|
christopher dale
|
sent to me. Now I wait to get
ALL critiques in, take notes and usually find that some of my BEST
critiquers can't write to save their lives, but KNOW what they enjoy
reading. One lady I work with REALLY critiques my AA excellent, and she HATES
AA! :-)
|
|
christopher dale
|
but she catches MOST of my
grammer and ALL of my plot skips (to date). I'll use her again! :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's pretty common when you
first start doing the critique thing. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And you end up doing a LOT of
rewriting. And by all means, use critiquers who give you good feedback even
if they hate what you write. :-)
|
|
bengalrose
|
Mary, it seems to me that we
need to be able to step back from our darlings and read critiques in as
detatched amnner as possible. Find the nuggets of wisdom and after careful
consideration, ignore anything that honestly misses the mark. Gut instincts
matter.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Exactly. I have found that it
works best for me...and for other writers I know...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
to gather all the responses on
a particular project, do something else and let them sit for awhile, and
THEN pick them up...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and read them. By giving those
critiques some time to 'cool off' you can avoid that automatic 'no, that's
not how I should do it' resistance that is pretty universal.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I don't even LOOK at a
critique until I'm ready to revise the ms. Then I read them all, think
about what to use /discard for a couple of days and THEN I revise.
|
|
christopher dale
|
In responce to bengle's comment
- I agree. My sis-in-law calls me Teflon man - I take NOTHING personally.
:-) So just go out and buy the BIGGEST can of cooking spray you can and
start spraying yourself down! :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's a good state of being,
but not all writers can achieve it, Chris. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The thing to do is find a way
that you can use critiques without too much personal agony. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's actually why I am VERY
nervous about critiquing for conference writing workshops, where I know
nothing about the people submitting.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I walk VERY softly until I
have a sense of how 'tough' they are.
|
|
sweet_muse
|
I also have a thicker skin than
I used to, for accepting crits
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Good, sweet. That helps.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
One thing that will help you a
LOT with critiques is reader feedback once you begin to publish.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
When you find out you have
fans, people who love what you wrote...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
it is a lot easier to be
objective about those critiques.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And you'll begin to discover
just what works for readers, so you can concentrate on what you need to
improve.
|
|
t green
|
have you ever given a
"gentle critique" only to have the writer say "Come on! Is
that ALL you have to say?"
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Sure, t. I use a very light
touch with a workshop participant where I have not met the writer and have
no idea where he or she is in terms of craft.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But normally, these workshops
are conducted face to face, so I can expand on a written critique as I get
a sense of how much feedback this person really can handle.
|
|
speckledorf
|
I think the most important thing
about a critiquer is that he/she be someone you can trust, that has plenty
of experience, especially if you are trying to sell. Sometimes our
"gut" is wrong.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, up to a point, speck,
but remember that even pros are not totally objective.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Each of us knows what WE think
is good or not good in fiction or nonfiction...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and if you're really sure that
you need to do it this way...DO it this way.
|
|
realityczech
|
I suggest wearing leather gloves
when pulling the critique daggers out of your heart; less likely to cut
your hands that way...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'm smiling, because sometimes
they sure do feel like that...BUT...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
if you are getting negative
critiques from someone...a list of what 'sucks' and nothing at all about
what works.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
For heaven's sake DROP that
person. NOW.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That is not help.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And there ARE groups that
pride themselves on being 'rough'...if nobody cries, they're not doing
their job right.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I know of one or two like
that. In my opinon they're not doing a good job.
|
|
realityczech
|
So how do we determine what/who
to listen to? Surely it's not simply a matter of majority rules?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, if the majority is
saying exactly the same thing, I'd listen. But realize that if , say, they
all tell you that your character's...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
behavior at the climax made no
sense...then it's just a matter of making it MAKE sense in the revision.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If they tell you they don't
like the plot or the ending and that's the plot or ending you want, well
you're not writing for them, that's all.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Ideally, critiquers leave
their 'I like' or 'I hate' comments out of it...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
believe me, I crit a lot of
stories I would never read if I wan't critting them! LOL...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but not all critiquers are
that detached. So ignore the 'I hate this' comments.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Focus on the ones that tell
you you didnt make something clear.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
YOU know why your main
character did what he did, but if your readers misunderstand, you simply
need to make the reasons clearer.
|
|
sweet_muse
|
Critiquing others' work also
helps you to become a better writer.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Actually, critiquing others'
work is the BEST and more CERTAIN way to improve your own work. No kidding.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can always see flaws in
someone else before you can see them in YOUR work.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about using a critique. If you're new here, remember that you
need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the
red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon
in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can
also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
|
|
t green
|
I've been involved in a critique
group since last summer and I think one key is to be as specific as
possible with the critique. Also finding things that work and pointing them
out, along with things that don't work... always reminding the writer that
it's only my opinion on the piece.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Good points, t. And as someone
whose work is being critiqued...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
it is always a good idea to
list for yourself the questions YOU have about the story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
For example: Did you like the
character? Did the ending work for you? DId you understand why she walked
away from that sword of power? Did you see the palace clearly...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
things like that.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Go to the critique...if it's
live...with that list in front of you. If those questions aren't answered
in the crit, ask them afterward.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you're doing a by mail
crit, seal them into an envelope and ask the reader to answer them AFTER
they read the ms.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I always know what questions I
want my critiquers to answer. They may tell me more than that, but those
are the points I"m concerned about.
|
|
t green
|
one good on-line critique group
i've found is at www.boost4writers.com you get put into groups of 8 and
submit once a month. you critique 2 ms's a week. I've found that critiquing
others helps my writing, too.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
IT really really does, t, and
that sounds like a good place to meet critiquers . I'll have to check them
out and maybe post the link on the site, if they want it.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
hhhmmm...t, want to write me a
review of it?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I get a lot of questions about
where to find online crit groups.
|
|
realityczech
|
So what should sufferers of PTCS
(Post Traumatic Critique Syndrome) do to re-group and start writing again?
Begin where you left off? Start over?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I would say, reality, that you
need to find a better bunch of critiquers.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Ideally, you get positive
comments.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Even when I am literally
taking someone's story apart scene by scene...which I do with advanced and
more experienced writers...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I am telling them what works
and why I had problems with the things I had problems with...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
rather than simply saying
'bad, bad, bad'.
|
|
writelegends
|
double edged sword - ask for the
deepest and harshest critique in order to get the most feedback while
maintaining precious ego when critquers find "flaws"
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
There is NO REASON EVER for
critiques to be harsh.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Thorough, yes. As I said, I
literally dissect stuff when I think it's on the verge of begin really
good...but it's always done with the tone of 'this is almost super, and
this is how I think you can get there'.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You can make anything sound
like a piece of trash if you want to...and sadly there are people out there
who do just that.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Don't make them do it to you
twice! Quit the first time you run into one. Believe me, they're not
helping you.
|
|
bengalrose
|
My rule is if only 1 of 4
mentions something, be wary (but don't rule out the comment outright). If 2
or more mention the exact same thing, take note! They may be on to
something.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's a pretty good rule,
bengal.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It also depends on who is
doing the critiquing, remember.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you write a story with a
gay man as MC and your critiquer is really homophobic..you may not get a
really objective critique and your...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
critiquer may not even realize
WHY he is being so negative.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Take that into account.
|
|
christopher dale
|
to me, when a critquer sends me
a comment like "I really felt like I coulsd see that through your/the
MCs eyes" then I KNOW I've done my job, and makes the critque worth it
all. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Yes, and that's the kind of
comment ideally critiquers make...you need to know what you're good at, as
well as where your weaknesses are.
|
|
wolf122
|
I find it good to bounce the
story off of one person who doesn't read the genre (they look at grammer
and plot), and after revisions, give it someone who reads the genre (for
story)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's a good practice, wolf.
:-)
|
|
mbvoelker
|
Great point about knowing
people's background. I have, once or twice, had to return something someone
asked me to critique untouched and tell them that I could not give them an
effective critique because of my religious principles.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Good for you for saying that
up front and not simply letting it color your critique, mb.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But not everyone will tell
you....
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
so if you get a really
negative critique from someone who normally is reasonable, you may have
pushed a button.
|
|
janp
|
Use of alternatives, or what if
suggestions?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's an issue of
controversy, jan, and thanks for bringing it up.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Some people feel strongly that
you should NOT rewrite someone's story...help them tell THIS one as well as
it can be told.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's the LR official policy,
by the eway.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But if I see a story that with
a small change could be something else and I think a much stronger story in
that form, I'll suggest it to the author after I give that person a crit of
what he/she wrote.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But I'll limit my main crit to
the story the writer is currently telling.
|
|
speckledorf
|
I also found it is nice to have
just a plain "reader"...someone who knows nothing about writing.
I get comments as to what they got from the story and can make adjustments
if needed.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That can be very useful if
you're just starting out, since this is after all, your reader.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
As you get more skill and have
a better sense of your craft, you'll probably find this less useful...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
since you'll see most of the
things that this reader points out on your own...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and they won't be able to give
you the level of commentary you need.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But when you're first
starting, they're quite helpful...and they are a way of finding out if your
work moves readers.
|
|
mbvoelker
|
When I do critique I like to use
the phrasing "If this were mine I might ..." or "You might
consider ... (a list of several alternatives". I hope that helps
people understand that I'm not trying to make them write my story instead
of theirs.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's a good way to do it,
mb.
|
|
janp
|
Not a rewrite; a what if MC
reacted this way or did that
|
|
janp
|
to make a point
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Sure, jan. That's a perfectly
valid question to ask. Sometimes you can see a potential tangent or
alternative that the writer, focused on what exists, will miss.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The value of the critique is
that these are clear eyes, and we know WAY too much about our worlds...so
it's easy for us to miss the weak spots and holes that will confuse
readers.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Keeping THAT in mind, you can
filter out the extraneous comments that really don't matter to this story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
In any crit group, you will
find people who will deliver useful commentary and people who always beat
the same horse...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
description or character or
dialogue or what have you...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and sometimes they'll be
useful and other times less so.
|
|
sweet_muse
|
I have work I started in 1996,
1997, and 1998 -- I am going to pull it out one day next month and look at
it with fresh eyes..It will be new to me, I'll bet --- like a time capsule.
I can do revisions and finish one story that was unfinished.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Oh for sure, sweet. The story
I recently sold to SciFiction was one I wrote nine years ago or so and
couldn't figure out how to end. The one I had just didn't work.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I had TOTALLY forgotten I
wrote it, but when I pulled it up onscreen and started reading it..I
instantly realized how it needed to end.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But I hate to put work into
the files for nine years to get a clear look!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
However, if you have something
you simply cannot make work or cannot sell, file it, don't dump it.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Stumble over it years from now
and it may turn into something wonderful.
|
|
sweet_muse
|
I am actually very excited about
it, like a kid on Christmas morning.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
yep, that's how it can be.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Never throw anything out.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's why we have floppys,
thumb drives, and CD roms.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The best way for you to use a
critique without being wounded by it is to decide on YOUR agenda before the
critique session...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
or before you send a ms out
for a by-mail critique. What are YOU uncertain about.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You may not be sure that your
character's motivations are clear, or that the world make sense, or that
...common one for me... the SF tech is comprehensible.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And focus on the answers the
critiques provide. Discard the off-the-mark comments...unless several
people tell you the same thing.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Then pay attention.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The danger in critiques is
that you will give your critiquers total power...assume that they are right
and you are wrong.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
BAD mind set.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
YOU are the boss here. YOU
know what you want to write and you are going to use their input to make it
better.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Be a consumer. Disgard the
comments that just don't really seem to apply.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Discard the comments that
clearly reflect personal prejudices or a narrow mind set.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Listen to multiple comments
that suggest you need to make something clearer.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
For example, one of my
favorite things to do is to create main characters who are borderline
unlikeable, with the intenition of making the reader like that character
inspite of themselves. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And often I don't give them
enough attributes to pull that off in the first pass...and my critiquers
are a valuable...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
measurement of whether I've
achieved that balance or ended up with someone who is unlikeable only.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
So even if the comments are
along the lines of 'I don't like him!'...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
that merely tells me I need to
reveal a few more traits that readers can like..
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
it doesn't make me discard the
character.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The danger is to see the
comments as measurement of the quality of your story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
My critiquers hated it, it
must be trash.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Remember that comments are
tools for you to use to make THIS story stronger.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
They are not letter grades.
They are not judgements on the quality of your writing.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And if you have critiquers who
are making those kinds of comments...dump 'em FAST.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And most importantly...when
you get enough input...stop critiquing the ms!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Send it off!
|
|
janp
|
Non fic, general audience; how
much statistical information?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Totally depends, janp. Statistics
tend to bore most readers unless they are easily 'digested'. But they can
be quite necessary.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'd say just enough to support
your point, delivered in the most accessible manner possible...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
unless you are writing for a
technical journal.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
For example, 'Ninety precent
of the planet is water' is much more accessible than a table that compares
square miles of land to square miles of open water. :-)
|
|
janp
|
Use sidebars?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That can work, but if the
numbers are critical to the article, I'd include 'em. Many don't read
sidebars
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If they're not critical but
amplify your point, a sidebar is a good choice.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Any more questions about
critiques?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Critiques...giving them and
getting them...are probably the strongest tool you can use to improve your
writing.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And they can be damaging if
you turn them into something that they are not.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Remember...even when you hear
from a pro at a workshop...it is always an opinion only.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And only YOU know what you're
trying to do with your story.
|
|
sweet_muse
|
thank you so much Mary ---- It
is great to be attending a Tuesday forum again.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Nice to see you, too sweet!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, have a good week all!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'll be chatting with Pamela
Thibodeaux on Thursday about her experiences marketing her books.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Have a good week! I'll post
the transcript in Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
See you all on Wed, same time,
same place for our casual chat!
|