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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all! I hope you've had
a great week!
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
real characters on the page. I've published seven novels and more than 60
short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If
you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question'
button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the
screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if
that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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It's been an interesting
week...
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mary rosenblum
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I got a call from my editor at
Tor Books, the one who will be working with me on my forthcoming SF
novel...
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mary rosenblum
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and it's always such a strange
feeling, getting to know a new editor for a novel...
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mary rosenblum
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you and the editor have to
figure out what your boundaries are...how much give and take is going to
work...
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mary rosenblum
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whether you both have similar
ideas about changes and compromise..
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mary rosenblum
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and you tend to work with the
same editor for as long as you're with that house...
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mary rosenblum
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unless the editor leaves, so
it's rather like a first date when you know you're going to get married
like it or not!
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tory
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funny analogy, Mary.
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mary rosenblum
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It's rather an apt one, Tory,
if that novel is your 'child', which it is to most of us!
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kayo
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So are you getting married, or
just dating?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, Kayo, when the editor
buys the book you ARE married, LOL, so the first date comes after the
fact...
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mary rosenblum
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think of it as an arranged
marriage in a way. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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But in this case, I think
we're going to work well together...
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mary rosenblum
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Which is a relief!
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mary rosenblum
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Some editors CAN be difficult
to work with.
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mary rosenblum
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I've never had one of those,
fortunately, but I have had some who didn't do much that a copy editor
couldn't do.
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mary rosenblum
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I've learned from the really
good ones.
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info
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what if the editor buys your
book and than you find out it's not going to work between you and the
editor? What can a person do? Anything?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, info, it's not likely
that you CAN'T work with that editor, although you and the editor may look
forward to the day you're done dealing with each other!
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
real characters on the page. I've published seven novels and more than 60
short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If
you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question'
button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the
screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if
that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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But a lot of it depends on how
flexible you both are...
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mary rosenblum
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If the editor wants a change,
can you consider it and make it, and will that editor listen to you if you
have raeasons for not doing it?
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mary rosenblum
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Some authors are touch-me-not
writers and drive editors nuts...
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mary rosenblum
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a few editors are 'my way or
the highway' and drive authors nuts.
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geezer
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How long does the editing
process generally take?
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mary rosenblum
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Geezer, it depends on the
schedule for the book...
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mary rosenblum
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mine is probably already on
their publishing schedule even though my agent hasn't finalized the offer
yet!
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mary rosenblum
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And that will affect the
length of time we have to work...
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mary rosenblum
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but since David called me on
the phone to tell me the two major content changes he wanted me to
consider...
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mary rosenblum
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I'd say we're going to be
working on it sooner rather than later.
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mary rosenblum
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We'll see.
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mary rosenblum
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It may be he simply wanted to
get a feel for how I am to work with. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Generally it will be about two
years between the acceptance and the bookshelf...
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mary rosenblum
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but it can be as short as one
year...
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mary rosenblum
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or quite a bit faster if
you're not dealing with a big NY publisher.
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mary rosenblum
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The small press publishers
turn things around much more quickly.
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kayo
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Do you make most of your contact
via phone or e-mail during the editing process, Mary?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, Kayo, these days, it's
all electronic. I already sent them the ms on CD...our edits will probably
go back and forth as attached files, or CD for the entire ms.
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mary rosenblum
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I actually like the editing
process if I have a good editor.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm always happy to make
something better and that is what the editor is after, too.
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mary rosenblum
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Tweaky fixes are boring, but
necessary.
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mary rosenblum
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You DO make logic errors no
matter how careful you are...
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wingedwarrior24
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is cd the only way to send MS?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, you submit nearly all ms
as paper manuscripts, winged. At least to NY publishers you do.
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mary rosenblum
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We'll probably edit chapters
by email...
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mary rosenblum
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I just didn't want to send 25
attached files!
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mary rosenblum
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And they weren't in a hurry so
I sent them the cd.
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kayo
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Interesting. I'd not imagined a
CD burner as a necessary tool.
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mary rosenblum
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It's not. I could have gone
email or floppy.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll happily let you all look
over my shoulder as David and I go through the editing process. If you
watch my blog (available from my website homepage) you can see what I'm up
to step by step.
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kayo
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So, talk to us, please, about
bringing our characters alive in ink on paper. How did you create your MC
for your SF book?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, let's talk about that
because characters ARE the foundation of powerful writing, and if you can
create REAL characters...
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mary rosenblum
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you WILL sell your fiction
because most writers can't. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Well, maybe not most, but a
lot.
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senicynt
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Hi Mary, what is the URL for
your website blog?
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mary rosenblum
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I can't remember the blog url,
but there's a link on my webpage: www.maryrosenblum.com
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mary rosenblum
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right on the homepage.
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mary rosenblum
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What DOES make a character
real to the reader?
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mary rosenblum
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Why does the reader begin to
feel that this is a real person?
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jr souza jr
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http://writingruminations.blogspot.com/
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mary rosenblum
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thanks, jr.
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mary rosenblum
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It's simple enough, I should
remember it. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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The key to creating real
people is to think about how you make a new friend...
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mary rosenblum
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because that is the process
you will duplicate.
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mary rosenblum
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Your reader is making a new
friend in your MC...
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mary rosenblum
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or at least meeting someone
memorable that he/she will respect even if that MC isn't entirely likeable.
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mary rosenblum
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Say a new person shows up in
the workplace.
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mary rosenblum
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How do you decide what that
person is like?
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mary rosenblum
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Everything you do in real life
you can duplicate on the page.
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mary rosenblum
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AND you can go a bit farther,
since in third person, you can give readers a peek at the character's
thoughts, which is darn...
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mary rosenblum
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hard to do in real life unless
you are a telepath.
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tory
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You watch to see how they treat
people.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes! We learn a lot by
watching our new co worker's interactions with the bosses and the stock
clerk.
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mary rosenblum
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And the waitress at the
restaurant, the kid waving a petition outside the restaurant...
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mary rosenblum
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every interaction tells us
something..
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mary rosenblum
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We listen, too, right?
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mary rosenblum
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What kind of vocabulary does
this person have?
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mary rosenblum
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Is she from the south? What
prejudices are revealed as we chat in the lunchroom about the day's news,
the troublesome neighbor kid, dog parks?
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mary rosenblum
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Pretty soon we'll get an idea
of whether she is religious, conservative or liberal, likes kids, is
married, divorced, all that stuff.
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kayo
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Engage them in conversation, but
don't ask too many questions right away. Observe with eyes and ears, and
take notes like crazy!
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mary rosenblum
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Yep...and of course, that's
what YOU the author do!
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mary rosenblum
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You set up a scene where your
character has to reveal the things you want the reader to know.
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mary rosenblum
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The most common mistake novice
writers make is they plop their MC down in their story...
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mary rosenblum
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and let that person take off
running along the plot path, with no thought about how to reveal that
character to the reader.
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mary rosenblum
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So we know nothing about that
character, and if his/her behavior doesn't make instant sense in terms of
how WE think...
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mary rosenblum
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we assume the characterization
is thin, the character is cardboard...
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mary rosenblum
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because we haven't seen enough
of the character to realize why he or she behaves this way. Unreal
character!
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mary rosenblum
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Of course this is MUCH tougher
in a 1000 or 2000 word story than if you are playing about with 7000 words!
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senicynt
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telepaths - I read in Scientific
American that they are learning that people may in fact be telepathic.
After studying brain patterns, they know that when a person sees someone do
a thing, the same areas of the brain activate in the observer as well as in
the person doing the activity. They also note that in autism, those same
brain areas do not fire which may explain why autistics are
dissassociative. Now, there's some SCI FI tidbits. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Oh yes...:-) telepathy and
empathy is a reoccuring theme in many of my SF stories. I'm very interested
in the research. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Again, the key is intent here.
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mary rosenblum
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Rather than plop that
character into the plot and have at it...
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mary rosenblum
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spend some time developing
your character thoroughly...
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mary rosenblum
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and THEN decide what few
traits will convey that character to the greatest degree with the fewest
words.
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mary rosenblum
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There are some universals that
will connect readers to characters.
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mary rosenblum
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And it only takes one or two
strong 'you're like me' connections for that character to turn from
ink-on-paper to a real person for the reader.
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kayo
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I'm reading a Walter Mosley Easy
Rawlins series mystery and am enjoying the tiny snatches of
characterization the author seems to effortlessly drop throughout the
writing.
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mary rosenblum
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Mosely is an excellent example
of good character writing.
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mary rosenblum
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If you like mystery, James Lee
Burke is also.
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mary rosenblum
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And that's a trait of
characterization...you scatter bits through the story, clear up to your
climax.
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senicynt
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One could have fun with a
character who is a telepath but doens't know it, they accidently pick up
the electromagnetic fields of the things they are near. As a result, they
are locked into an insane asylum.
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mary rosenblum
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It was a popular topic in SF,
sen, back in about the seventies.
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mary rosenblum
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Zena Henderson's 'The People'
books were very well read.
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keith mac
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Have you found dialects to be
useful?
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mary rosenblum
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They can be, keith, as a way
to make a character memorable, or to suggest a background.
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mary rosenblum
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If your MC speaks like a
hillbilly or a cowboy or a street punk, your reader instantly fills in the
background for the character.
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mary rosenblum
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Which is why I give novice
writers a lot of grief when their farm hand with an 8th grade education
uses college English major language!
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mary rosenblum
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Works the other way, too!
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mary rosenblum
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Just don't overwhelm the
reader with phonetic spellings that distract her from the story!
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catydorr
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mary can you give us a couple of
examples of the universals traits connecting reader to character
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mary rosenblum
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Sure.
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mary rosenblum
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I have a student who sent me
an excellent SF piece. And the MC really didn't, in my opinion, matter much
to readers...he wasn't all that likeable.
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mary rosenblum
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But the circumstances were
such that if he revealed to the readers his love for his son and his guilt
over his son's supposed death...
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mary rosenblum
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and when his son reappeared,
his hurt and anger that he had been intentionally misled about this faked
'death'...
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mary rosenblum
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readers would end up really
identifying with him, liking him, and forgiving him for his 'questionable'
actions.
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mary rosenblum
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Because most of us can
identify with loss, guilt, and personal pain caused by someone we love.
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mary rosenblum
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Love, guilt, fear of
abandonment, desire to fulfill a parent's expectations,...
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mary rosenblum
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there are tons of universals
that most people will have experienced in some degree.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
real characters on the page. I've published seven novels and more than 60
short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If
you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question'
button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the
screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if
that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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The trick is to reveal these
universals without adding pages and pages of unnecessary scene to your
story...
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mary rosenblum
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and as I said, the shorter
your story, the harder it is.
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mary rosenblum
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When you're writing short
short...and those of you in LR are sure doing that. :-)... You need to
decide...
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mary rosenblum
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what will reveal the side of
your character that matters...what will make his or her actions make sense
to the reader.
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mary rosenblum
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Let's take a short short
where, say, the climax is that a browbeaten teen...
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mary rosenblum
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who has spent his life trying
to please his domineering father...
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mary rosenblum
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finally stands up for himself,
and Dad backs down.
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mary rosenblum
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It would be easy and tempting
to just tell the reader that sonny is a browbeaten teen or show Dad
ordering him around and son doing everything with a hangdog look.
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mary rosenblum
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But you know what?
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mary rosenblum
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Pity is not a good connection.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers want to admire a
character and 'stupid character syndrome' or spineless characters who put
up with terribly abusive spouses or parents do not connect well.
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mary rosenblum
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This is a case of needing to
tone down the father, and let the son's behavior tell us that Dad is
domineering...
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mary rosenblum
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rather than make Dad over the
top awful.
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mary rosenblum
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Give the son a reason to
really want to please Dad.
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe older brother died in a
car accident and he was everything Dad wanted in a son...
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mary rosenblum
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and our MC is really trying to
replace that kid for Dad without understanding what he's trying to do...
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mary rosenblum
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but we readers will see it.
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mary rosenblum
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Nearly every reader has, at
some time, tried to please someone who simply wasn't going to be pleased no
matter how hard we tried...
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mary rosenblum
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and that's going to connect.
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mary rosenblum
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The common novice mistake is
to simply show the reader a really HORRIBLE father and all we see of the
kid's character is his submissive reaction.
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mary rosenblum
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WE don't understand the reason
for it, and the connection doesn't happen.
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mary rosenblum
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Reader thinks 'spineless' and
shrugs.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
real characters on the page. I've published seven novels and more than 60
short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If
you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question'
button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the
screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if
that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
|
It is a good idea to avoid
extremes in characters.
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mary rosenblum
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How many really extreme people
have you met in your life?
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wingedwarrior24
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When will we know when we have a
realistic character?
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mary rosenblum
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Right now, as a novice writer,
you'll find that out by giving your work to good readers to read.
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mary rosenblum
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After they have read your
work, ask them questions. Did the character work for you?
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mary rosenblum
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What do you think about him?
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mary rosenblum
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Why do you think he behaved
the way he did?
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mary rosenblum
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If their answers reflect your
intentions at least closely, if not precisely, you're doing great!
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mary rosenblum
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And put real people into the
place of your characters!
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mary rosenblum
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If Aunt Susie was faced with
this problem, what would she do? SHe's sort of like my main character.
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smilingsunflower
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As an exercise and example,
please talk about creating character change by taking a spineless character
and empowering that character on the page using examples. Thanks
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mary rosenblum
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Well, let's take our kid who
wants to please Dad. Actually, that's the case in the novelette by King,
titled The Body, and was the source of the movie Stand By Me...
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mary rosenblum
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That is his MC's situation.
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mary rosenblum
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If you show us that character
bowing to Dad's demands, taking Dad's abuse without batting an eye, simply
shuffling his feet and saying 'yessir'...
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mary rosenblum
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we think spineless...
doormat... and that's all we know about him.
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mary rosenblum
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Then, in the final scene, the
kid runs away to join the circus, gets a job and moves into his aunts
house..does something that tells us...
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mary rosenblum
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that he has had it with Dad
and will from now on, work on having a real life instead of pleasing an
unpleasable father and feeling like a failure.
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mary rosenblum
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At that point the reader says,
'how nice' yawns and forgets he ever read the story...
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mary rosenblum
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because you the author are
asking us to believe that he could do this without giving us a shred of
reason for that kid's behavior.
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mary rosenblum
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Why now? Why not before? Why
change at all when he was such a perfect doormat?
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...our MC and his friend
are going through stuff in an abandoned house...
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mary rosenblum
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and they find a box of old
papers, and there is the headline page celebrating a kid who won the game
at the state basketball championship...
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mary rosenblum
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and our MC chokes and his
friend says, hey, isn't that your brother?...
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mary rosenblum
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and maybe then we find out
that the kid feels he was the cause of the accident that killed his
brother.
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mary rosenblum
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Suddenly his trying so hard to
be what his father wants, his willingness to live with that father's
hostility, has reason behind it.
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mary rosenblum
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Ah...guilt...he blames
himself.
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mary rosenblum
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We've all been there...to a
lesser extent probably, but we've been tehre.
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mary rosenblum
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And now we have a reason, and
he's NOT a doormat but rather we catch a glimpse of a lot of crippling
internal baggage...
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mary rosenblum
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that explains some of his
behavior.
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mary rosenblum
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The main thing that makes a
character is that 'you're like me' moment.
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mary rosenblum
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And the more realistic traits
you give your character...the more likely it is that your readers will say
'you're like me'.
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mary rosenblum
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It may be fear of snakes,
wanting a dog he can't have, having the hots for a pop star -- I call those
'velcro traits' and they tend to connect that character to some if not all
of your readers.
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mary rosenblum
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That's why it's important to
create that character so thorough ahead of time.
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mary rosenblum
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While you will have large
personality universals to connect your reader....like our kid's guilt for
his brother's death...
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mary rosenblum
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the small universals connect,
too.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and tonight we're talking about
real characters on the page. I've published seven novels and more than 60
short stories and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If
you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question'
button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the
screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if
that works better for you..
|
|
kayo
|
"Bonnie was the only woman
I had known in my adulthood who could make me feel like a child in the
presence of maternal love. I leaned back against her anc closed my eyes.
I'm a big man, weighing one ninety, but her work as a stewardess had
prepared her to deal with heavy objects." Mosley
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, this is a nice first
person example. Here, as Easy tells us about Bonnie, he's revealing how he
feels about Bonnie...that he can feel that son/mother comfort in her
presence...
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mary rosenblum
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and more importantly, that
he's someone who can articulate that.
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mary rosenblum
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That gives us a sense of this
character...
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mary rosenblum
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So rather than simply walking
your MC through the scene in terms of what the plot demands...
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mary rosenblum
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think about what you can
reveal about his character to the reader as he cleans the stable, or
follows the thief, or waters the garden...
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mary rosenblum
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Keep in mind what your reader
must know in order for your climax to work.
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mary rosenblum
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And see if your character
can't reveal those thoughts and feelings in the course of his/her
activities and interactions.
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mary rosenblum
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Let's go back to our kid
again...
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mary rosenblum
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we have him revealing his
feelings about his brother's death very clearly to his friend when they
discover that stack of newspapers...
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mary rosenblum
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but we could let him hint at
it in other ways.
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe he sneaks into his dad's
study...and takes down that state basketball trophy and polishes it...
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mary rosenblum
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And as he's tiptoeing out the
room, Dad comes in and catches him...and starts to get mad...
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mary rosenblum
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and then the trophy catches
his eye and the anger we expect suddenly vanishes and he just looks sad...
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mary rosenblum
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and he says something about
that game and maybe even makes it clear that the son died soon after, and
our kid's body language...
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mary rosenblum
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tells us clearly that he is
suffering as he listens.
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mary rosenblum
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So that scene...all action and
dialogue...
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mary rosenblum
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reveals to us that Dad is not
a monster but maybe motivated by his own grief/guilt and that it is this
death that is connected to the son's behavior.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers are good at assembling
many small clues. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Never be afraid to revise your
plot if you need a scene that will reveal important character information
to us.
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mary rosenblum
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If things happen too quickly,
readers may not have a chance to get to know your character.
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mary rosenblum
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Even in a short short piece,
you can find a way create an 'intense pause'.
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe your MC has a brief,
intense conversation with a buddy that reveals a lot...
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mary rosenblum
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or gets a letter, or sees
something that connects to a memory...
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mary rosenblum
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and what we need to know is
suddenly clear to the reader.
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mary rosenblum
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Of course your characters'
motivations are clear to YOU.
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mary rosenblum
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You know that character. But
we are not telepaths...most of us anyway.
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mary rosenblum
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So we only know what is on the
page.
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mary rosenblum
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And you don't have to tell us
everything.
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mary rosenblum
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That scene with the trophy and
dad in the office wouldn't be long...
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mary rosenblum
|
less than a page, probably.
But readers will get a lot of insight from it about what is going on
between these two characters.
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mary rosenblum
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So, to summarize, think
universals...the things that allow your readers to think, 'he's just like
me', 'she's just like me'...
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mary rosenblum
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from little traits like hating
brusselsprouts, to larger issues such as feeling like a failure.
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mary rosenblum
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Those connections are what
tell your reader that this is a person who shares some of the same
feelings, worries, likes, dislikes.
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mary rosenblum
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And that's the basis for real
characters...
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mary rosenblum
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giving them human traits!
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madhatter
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with "bad-guy"
characters. He/she's not "Like me"?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, it's a good idea to give
bad guys a few small traits that readers CAN identify with.
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mary rosenblum
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Bad guys are human, too. THEY
don't think they're bad guys...that's YOUR opinion! :-)
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mary rosenblum
|
And it makes readers kind of
uncomfortable to realize that they share a trait or two with the villain!
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mary rosenblum
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all of a sudden this person
isn't a cardboard cutout any more!
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mary rosenblum
|
Well, thanks for coming!
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mary rosenblum
|
This was a fun 'Oregon Hour'
and I hear thunder rumbling. Honestly...
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mary rosenblum
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this week is beginning to
remind me of August in Pittsburgh as a kid...thunderstorms every evening!
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post the transcript in
the usual place.
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mary rosenblum
|
Writing Craft: forum
transcripts.
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mary rosenblum
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Do come by Sunday..
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mary rosenblum
|
for our casual chat...
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mary rosenblum
|
same time as the Forum...it's
an open conversation on all topics...
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mary rosenblum
|
See you then!
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mary rosenblum
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Have a great weekend!
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geezer
|
Send it down to us!
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mary rosenblum
|
Geezer, one thunderstorm on
the way! !!
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mary rosenblum
|
Night!
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