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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all.
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mary rosenblum
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Welcome to our Tuesday Forum.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember
that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a
question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach
me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send
bar to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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I thought I'd come back to
characters today..
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mary rosenblum
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mainly because you can't learn
enough about characterization.
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mary rosenblum
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But also because I see a lot
of characters with boring jobs in novice fiction...both short stories and
novels.
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mary rosenblum
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And characters with boring
pasts ...or a past that is FAR from boring, but pretty unsuitable to what
that poor character is expected to do.
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mary rosenblum
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Which is probably why so many
writers complain that their characters don't want to work for 'em. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I thik a lot of people come up
with a cool idea and a great start and sort of...
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mary rosenblum
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quickly plug in a character
without giving a lot of thought to that background.
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mary rosenblum
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They just sort of 'grab
something'. Okay, she's a nurse...he's an office manager.
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davidpro4
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Is that more likely with too
many or too few characters?
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mary rosenblum
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Good question, David. It's
much harder to create several really strong, unique characters than one.
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mary rosenblum
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The more main characters you
have, the more unique and distinct they must be or the readers will...
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mary rosenblum
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tend to confuse them, and may
have to refer back to earlier sections in order to remember who is who.
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mary rosenblum
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But even with one or two main
characters...
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mary rosenblum
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those characters should be
strong and unique enough to be memorable to the readers after they end the
story.
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lore alley
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hey mary, I usually come across
an interesting character and then the character tells me his story. But
right now I have a story in need of a very specific character. I'm finding
it difficult to create a character-to-order. Any advice?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure. I usually try to do
made-to-order characters...when I can. Sometimes the character still comes
first. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And it often came first when I
first began writing.
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mary rosenblum
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What is the story going to
require of that character?
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mary rosenblum
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Leadership?
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mary rosenblum
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Self Doubt?
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mary rosenblum
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Stubborn determination?
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mary rosenblum
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Lack of confidence?
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mary rosenblum
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start with the traits that
character MUST have in order to be able to make your plot work...
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mary rosenblum
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and than ask yourself who
might fit this profile.
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mary rosenblum
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What would his past be, most
likely?
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mary rosenblum
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What was her childhood like to
have produced this personality type?
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mary rosenblum
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Given that, what kind of
school, job history, personal relationship history, suits this person she
has become?
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mary rosenblum
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Essentially you start with the
'end product' and work your way back to the past history that gives you
this person.
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lore alley
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he needs to be unusually mature.
his main purpose is to interact with another character in the story, but
he's also an MC. I need to find something interesting to happen to him as
well
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mary rosenblum
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So what kind of person might
be unusually mature, lore?
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe someone who had to
become a 'grown up' at an early age?
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe became caregiver for a
disabled parent at an early age?
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe left home or was
orphaned and lived on his own?
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe someone who took on a
lot of responsibility early?
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mary rosenblum
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Got involved with a program
for the homeless and ended up running it?
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mary rosenblum
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Do, please, use your private
message feature to chat during the forums. It gets hard to read for those
people with slow servers, if there is a lot of chat.
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mary rosenblum
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Or submit comments as
questions to the stage, and then they'll be in the transcripts for everyone
to read later.
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mary rosenblum
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By choosing some past history
that suggests that early maturity, you open the door to creating an
interesting past.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you're writing a novel,
as you flesh out that interesting past, you'll probably create some
marvelous potential subplots.
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janecj333
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Can't a character with
improbable background and traits work just as well, maybe better? a
surprise to the reader
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, it can, Jane, but it
requires considerable work on the author's part.
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mary rosenblum
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If you have someone who seems
to act out of character with what that person's past suggests...
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mary rosenblum
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you will have to reveal the
complexities of that character that make it NOT out of character at all.
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mary rosenblum
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It's not enough to create a
character who lives only for his own gain, who casually kills someone
over...
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mary rosenblum
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a few dollars, and then
suddenly this person turns around and does something marvelously
altruistic.
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mary rosenblum
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'Just because' is not a good
enough reason for readers.
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davidpro4
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How much character background
CAN you give?
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mary rosenblum
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Quite a lot, david, as long as
you don't dump it into the story in huge expository lumps. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Think about meeting a
stranger. His clothes tell you a bit about his background.
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mary rosenblum
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Every time he opens his mouth
you learn a bit more about this background...from accent, vocabulary,
regional idioms, what he has to say about people and events...
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mary rosenblum
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As that character meets
friends or is questioned by strangers, we'll learn more.
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mary rosenblum
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You can keep on slipping in
tidbits of background right up until your climax.
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mary rosenblum
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Where a lot of novice writers
get into trouble, is that they try do do an 'info dump' and spend a page or
two...
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mary rosenblum
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simply recounting the MC's
background.
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mary rosenblum
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That stops the foreward
momentum of the story, and it's 'spoon feeding' readers.
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mary rosenblum
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If readers can figure things
out from clues, it feels much more real than if you TELL them.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember
that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a
question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach
me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send
bar to reach me.
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mummsy
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How important are physical
descriptions of characters in a story?
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mary rosenblum
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NOt as important as most
novice authors think. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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A few key details are all you
need.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you're in limited third
or first person...which you usually are...it's darn hard to give physical
details to the readers...
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mary rosenblum
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without actually telling 'em.
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mary rosenblum
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Mostly you want readers to get
the gender and skin color right, along with the age, more or less, and the
general physical shape.
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mary rosenblum
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Hair color, eye color, fine
details....slip them in if you can't but if you cna
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mary rosenblum
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can't, don't sweat it.
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mary rosenblum
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Andrea tossed her red hair
back over her shoulder.
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mary rosenblum
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George looked down at his
father. (he's tall).
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mary rosenblum
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Cary looked up at the teacher.
(She's short)
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davidpro4
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Besides obvious misspells, how
do you show accent in print?
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mary rosenblum
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Orson Scott Card suggested
that you use really heavy phonetic spelling for a couple of paragraphs...
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mary rosenblum
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to imprint the sound of the
dialect on the reader...
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mary rosenblum
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and then use the structure of
the dialect, but only the occasional phonetic misspelling.
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mary rosenblum
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That seems to work pretty
well. Readers tend to keep hearing that dialect or accent...
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mary rosenblum
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and you don't distract 'em
with that clumsy phonetic misspelling ...which makes them pay too much
attention to the words and not enough to the story.
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janecj333
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Mothra tripped over his two
vestigial feet getting to the squidlet tray first at the lunch buffet.
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mary rosenblum
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LOL, nice jane. :-)
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kungfumama
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Can you give an example of that,
Mary?
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mary rosenblum
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You mean the phonetic dialect,
kung?
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kungfumama
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yes.
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mary rosenblum
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"We..al, y'll knew whar'
I cum from, ya don' go to no school...ya werk fer yer livin'.'
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mary rosenblum
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You do that too long and your
readers get a headache.
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mary rosenblum
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Go read Brian Jacques Redwall
series and his Cockney moles!
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mary rosenblum
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So after you so that heavy
handed accent/dialect for a few paragraphs, you start using normal spelling
but the structure of the character's sentences.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, y'all know were I come
from, ya don't go to no school, ya work for a livin'.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a lot easier to read, and
I preserved those 'ya', and will drop the occasional final consonant to
remind the reader...
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mary rosenblum
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of how the charater sounds.
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geezer
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My MC and the bad guys speak a
foreign language. Should I dribble a few foreign words in here and there?
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mary rosenblum
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You can do that, geeze.
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mary rosenblum
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It seems to work best if you
use either very FEW foreign words and suggest another language by altering
your sentence structure...
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mary rosenblum
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from normal conversational
English....
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mary rosenblum
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OR you use a LOT of the
language and make sure the readers can infer the meaning from context.
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mary rosenblum
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If I don't have an expert
reader in that langauge or I don't know it, I tend to just use a sprinkling
of words and alter the structure.
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acook
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I've seen in longer novels where
the writer will sprinkle the heavy dialect throughout the book to remind
the reader
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mary rosenblum
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You can do that, but you need
to make it subtle, acook...if your speaker has been doing the less phonetic
version and suddenly his speech is all apostrophes and misspellings, it
jars readers.
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mary rosenblum
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Often a new, minor character
will use heavy dialect if most people are supposed to be using it...
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mary rosenblum
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or you can have a minor
character speak entirely in the foreign language if what he/she says is
easily inferred.
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davidpro4
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No good to have the experience
if we miss the meaning.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, david.
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mary rosenblum
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You can also just TELL the
reader it's not English. (Ah, you do get to legitimately tell, once in
awhile).
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mary rosenblum
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In my upcoming novel, one of
the MCs is bilingual in Mandarin and English...and at times, she is
talking...
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mary rosenblum
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to someone who speaks only
Mandarin. The conversation is way too important and complex to actually use
the Mandarin, so I just let the reader know she has switched.
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mary rosenblum
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"You must trust me in
this." Ahni switched to Mandarin. "It is the only success we will
find."
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mary rosenblum
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And when I use English to
represent a foreign language, I try to stay true to that language's syntax
as best I can.
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mary rosenblum
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Be careful not to include
English conversational idiom and slang if your character is speaking, say,
German! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember
that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a
question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach
me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send
bar to reach me.
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lorib
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when naming characters must you
always include first and last?
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mary rosenblum
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It depends, lorib. Is the last
name important to the character? IF so, then yes, find a way to slip it in.
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mary rosenblum
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I often just use both names
when I first bring a character onstage and then drop either first or
last...
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mary rosenblum
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Sometimes I use a first name
only, sometimes the character goes by last name only.
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janecj333
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You switch from one language to
antoher to keep someone from knowing what the character is saying? or
because it's more elegantly said in the foreign language?
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mary rosenblum
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In this particular
circumstance...my novel...most of the time, it is because the MC is in
conversation with a character who does not speak Mandarin...
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mary rosenblum
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and a character who does not
speak English...but at times, it is because the conversation is more
forceful in Mandarin than in English or she wants the other person to
remain...
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mary rosenblum
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ignorant of what she is saying
to the Mandarin speaker.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember
that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a
question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach
me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send
bar to reach me.
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kungfumama
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is there ever a time when you
would plant the actual foreign language, and provide the translation as a
footnote?
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mary rosenblum
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I would only do that, kung, if
it benefitted the story. That would probably be a stylistic benefit, and
might work in an experimental piece..
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mary rosenblum
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where the story was all about
style rather than content.
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mary rosenblum
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Footnotes pull the reader
SMACK out of the story and drop them into the cold water of the here and
now.
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mary rosenblum
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That's a lot of shock to the
system!
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davidpro4
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Perhaps translation if meaning
isn't obvious from context?
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mary rosenblum
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Oh yes, david. You can get
really elegant that way...
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mary rosenblum
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If your character says 'hand
me that knife' in Swahili and your MC picks up the knife and hands it over,
we get the drift.
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mary rosenblum
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You can get away with a lot of
conversational chat...'come to dinner, where is Miquel, how much is that?
...
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mary rosenblum
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the characters' actions or
responses make the meaning roughly clear.
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mary rosenblum
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Of you have a bilingual
character and one who is ignorant of the language...the bilingual is
constantly translating.
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janecj333
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For a character who thinks in
his native language, it makes sense to accidently speak in that language
even when no one else understands.
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mary rosenblum
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Sure. And you just make sure
that those comments are fairly easy to guess at from contest.
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mary rosenblum
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If someone drops a heavy book
on his/her toe, the following word plus exclamation point is readily
comprehensible in ANY language.
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geezer
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Should foreign words be
italicized?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes...which means in ms
format, you underline 'em.
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janecj333
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And if you speak in Swahili to
the man who claims not to be a Swahili speaker, and then he complies,
you've learned a lot, too
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mary rosenblum
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Oh exactly. :-) That's a great
little clue in a mystery by the way.
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mary rosenblum
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If you want your MC to guess
that someone is an imposter...
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mary rosenblum
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most readers will miss it and
you can point to it later.
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mary rosenblum
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A caveat about character
backgrounds...
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mary rosenblum
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be prepared to do some
homework.
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mary rosenblum
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Every life path/career on the
planet has its own 'inside speak'.
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mary rosenblum
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Those are the words that have
meaning only to others in this career/life path...
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mary rosenblum
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and no meaning or a different
meaning to outsiders.
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mary rosenblum
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If you give your character
that 'inside speak' vocabulary, you make him/her VERY credible to the
readers.
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mary rosenblum
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If you do not learn that
insider speak...not only do people who live that career or life path know
that you made it all up...
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mary rosenblum
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but it does not exceed reader
expectations. You don't know any more about that doctor or dog trainer or
construction worker than they do...
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mary rosenblum
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and they're not impressed.
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mary rosenblum
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They're not getting an inside
peak at something cool and unknown and they know it.
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mary rosenblum
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I get a lot of stories with
doctors as characters who no more talk like a doctor than I do.
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mary rosenblum
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Or lawyers.
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mary rosenblum
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Or whatever.
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mary rosenblum
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And TV/Hollywood is not a good
resource!
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mary rosenblum
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No Perry Mason to research
your lawyer character!!!
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mary rosenblum
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However, an interesting an
unusual career is gold for you.
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mary rosenblum
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It increases reader interest
and adds to your story.
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mary rosenblum
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It's worth the work...and you
can get a lot of 'insider speak' either directly from individuals...
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mary rosenblum
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(take a doctor, lawyer,
landscape archetect or what have you to lunch and talk)...
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mary rosenblum
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or try looking for personal
memoirs.
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mary rosenblum
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Some are useful, some are not.
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mary rosenblum
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Esentially, readers are always
curious and an unusual career is 'exotic'.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember
that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a
question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach
me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send
bar to reach me.
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janecj333
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PhD-speak in the real world
smacks of affectation, to me. For characters, it would certainly serve to
put people in their place.
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mary rosenblum
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It can serve many purposes,
Jane. Both sympathetic and unsympathetic
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mary rosenblum
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But think about your plot and
the role your character will play in it.
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mary rosenblum
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What kind of past and/or
career will add to your plot?
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mary rosenblum
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This is especially valuable
for those of you working on novels...
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mary rosenblum
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where you're going to want to
weave in subplots to support the middle of your story.
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mummsy
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over-exposure to pretention
equals motive
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mary rosenblum
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It sure can, mummsy, but make
it subtle. Readers expect that! :-)
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geezer
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Ph.D.'s really don't speak any
differently than other people unless you get them in their subject area.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly.
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mary rosenblum
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And that's where someone can
get into trouble, by creating a really pompous character and the only explanation
is that she's a PhD...
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mary rosenblum
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it's a stereotype.
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mary rosenblum
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But you can have a MC who goes
out for beer with the guys and when the bar is suddenly full of big flying
ants...
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mary rosenblum
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the MC explains carpenter ant
life cycle in a degree that only a entymologist could love. :-) Could make
for a very fun little scene.
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gskearney
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Has anyone here who didn't know
guessed that I have a Ph.D. in electrical engineering?? --gk
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mary rosenblum
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LOL Gary.
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mary rosenblum
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This is a good example of what
to be wary of....
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mary rosenblum
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that stereotypical assumption.
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mary rosenblum
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'All PhDs talk funny'.
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mary rosenblum
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Well of course, they don't.
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mary rosenblum
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Be wary of any description
that begins with 'all'. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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In the mysery genre, an
interesting back story or career really is a strong selling point for
mystery series.
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mary rosenblum
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Your series no longer has to
depend only the murder-du-jour for interest...
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mary rosenblum
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your MC can do interesting
things through his/ her career path, too.
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mary rosenblum
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THat's the case in the Amateur
Sleuth and Cozy subgenres anyway.
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mary rosenblum
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You're a bit more limited in
the Procedurals, where the MC has to work within the law enforcement field,
or the Hardboiled subgenre, where the MC is ...
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mary rosenblum
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usually a PI or something
similar.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember, the stronger and
more memorable your story...at any length...
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mary rosenblum
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the more likely you are to see
it published.
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mary rosenblum
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So if you can give your MC an
interesting background that compliments your plot, you've increased the
power of that story.
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mary rosenblum
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Think about what your plot is
about. What could your MC do that either drives him into your story...
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mary rosenblum
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or gives him or her some
interesting activities to include?
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mary rosenblum
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I wrote a mystery that turned
on the murder of a man by someone who wanted his land...
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mary rosenblum
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and covered up the murder by
making it look as if he had died of thirst in the desert.
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted a MC who was familiar
with the desert and its water sources...
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mary rosenblum
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so I made my MC a geologist.
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mary rosenblum
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He happened to love the
deserts.
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mary rosenblum
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So I had a MC with a lot of
useful knowlege and an eye for details that helped the story.
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mary rosenblum
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I could have used a local
rancher....and that would have brought different details of interest into
the story...
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mary rosenblum
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but the rancher was likely to
have looked at water sources with a different point of view...
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mary rosenblum
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primarily as cattle water
sources, whereas the geologist paid more attention to...
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mary rosenblum
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small, hidden sources that
weren't suitable for watering cattle.
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mary rosenblum
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And he knew more details about
the ecology of the desert area than our hard working cattle rancher would
be interested in, most likely.
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janecj333
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I recently read a query for a
thriller whose author had worked at a top-secret defense site. That gavehim
great cachet, I imagine, with the agent reading the query. But most of us
haven't been CIA agents or astronauts or even engineers.
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mary rosenblum
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Sure, but agents and editors
don't expect you to have been in the CIA or worked for the DOD or even been
a geologist.
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mary rosenblum
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The marketing department loves
that sort of thing, but the editor or agent wants a good story.
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mary rosenblum
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The ex CIA agent might have
the expertise, but if he can't write a compelling story, too bad.
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mary rosenblum
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I knew someone in that
position. :-) The agent was DYING for this guy to write something he could
sell...
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mary rosenblum
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but this guy was really at
beginner level. Last I heard, he still hadn't pulled it off. Oh well.
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mary rosenblum
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If you do your homework, you
SOUND like an expert.
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mary rosenblum
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I got some very flattering
letters, by the way, from a couple of geologists after that particular
mystery story got published.
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mary rosenblum
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It really doesn't take a lot
of research to make your MC an expert.
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mary rosenblum
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It takes more if you're doing
a novel.
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mary rosenblum
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Much much less if you're doing
a short story.
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mary rosenblum
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If you're going to use
personal memoir to research your character's particular background...
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mary rosenblum
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or career, pay attention to
the way the writer refers to things and the terms used.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a good idea to try to
find several sources, don't depend on just one.
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mary rosenblum
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And of course if you know
someone in that career -- a cop for example, a lawyer, a doctor --
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mary rosenblum
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see if that person will read
your scene and tell you where you went wrong.
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mary rosenblum
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I have yet to give my 'cop
informant' a scene he can't find something amiss in, sigh.
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mary rosenblum
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Same thing with my military
informant. I'm getting better, but I still miss little details.
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mary rosenblum
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But those are common
careers...
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mary rosenblum
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If your MC is something fairly
rare, say a gem cutter...
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mary rosenblum
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you're going to need fewer
insider details to convince most readers that this person is a real gem
cutter. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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If you meet someone local who
has an interesting career, ask that person right then and there if you can
pick their brains for details should you...
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mary rosenblum
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write a story with a character
in that career.
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mary rosenblum
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I do that all the time and
have a little file of cards and contact info of people I might want to talk
to.
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mary rosenblum
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But remember...if you
character does have an unusual career, such as a gem cutter...
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mary rosenblum
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that is going to add to your
story. Readers tend to love to learn about new things.
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mary rosenblum
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And...it's fun. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I always pick something I want
to learn out.
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mary rosenblum
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Have as much fun as you can
with your writing. Why make it a chore?
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mary rosenblum
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For that matter, if you meet
someone who has an interesting sounding lifestyle or career...
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mary rosenblum
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chat with that person. But
that person lunch...see if the details of that life or career don't inspire
a story for you.
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mary rosenblum
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Start yourself a new file and
collect interesting 'backgrounds'. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been an
interesting Oregon hour.
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mary rosenblum
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Do join us tomorrow, same time
and place...
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mary rosenblum
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for our casual chats...when we
just talk about whatever and have fun.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a great place to meet
other writers.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post this at the usual
place...Writing Craft Forum Transcripts.
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mary rosenblum
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Have a good day, all!
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mary rosenblum
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And give the characters in
your next story an interesting background or career.
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