Forum Transcripts

Character Background 2//4/06

Event start time:

Tue Apr 04 12:03:55 2006

Event end time:

Tue Apr 04 13:29:22 2006



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello, all.

mary rosenblum

Welcome to our Tuesday Forum.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

mary rosenblum

I thought I'd come back to characters today..

mary rosenblum

mainly because you can't learn enough about characterization.

mary rosenblum

But also because I see a lot of characters with boring jobs in novice fiction...both short stories and novels.

mary rosenblum

And characters with boring pasts ...or a past that is FAR from boring, but pretty unsuitable to what that poor character is expected to do.

mary rosenblum

Which is probably why so many writers complain that their characters don't want to work for 'em. :-)

mary rosenblum

I thik a lot of people come up with a cool idea and a great start and sort of...

mary rosenblum

quickly plug in a character without giving a lot of thought to that background.

mary rosenblum

They just sort of 'grab something'. Okay, she's a nurse...he's an office manager.

davidpro4

Is that more likely with too many or too few characters?

mary rosenblum

Good question, David. It's much harder to create several really strong, unique characters than one.

mary rosenblum

The more main characters you have, the more unique and distinct they must be or the readers will...

mary rosenblum

tend to confuse them, and may have to refer back to earlier sections in order to remember who is who.

mary rosenblum

But even with one or two main characters...

mary rosenblum

those characters should be strong and unique enough to be memorable to the readers after they end the story.

lore alley

hey mary, I usually come across an interesting character and then the character tells me his story. But right now I have a story in need of a very specific character. I'm finding it difficult to create a character-to-order. Any advice?

mary rosenblum

Sure. I usually try to do made-to-order characters...when I can. Sometimes the character still comes first. :-)

mary rosenblum

And it often came first when I first began writing.

mary rosenblum

What is the story going to require of that character?

mary rosenblum

Leadership?

mary rosenblum

Self Doubt?

mary rosenblum

Stubborn determination?

mary rosenblum

Lack of confidence?

mary rosenblum

start with the traits that character MUST have in order to be able to make your plot work...

mary rosenblum

and than ask yourself who might fit this profile.

mary rosenblum

What would his past be, most likely?

mary rosenblum

What was her childhood like to have produced this personality type?

mary rosenblum

Given that, what kind of school, job history, personal relationship history, suits this person she has become?

mary rosenblum

Essentially you start with the 'end product' and work your way back to the past history that gives you this person.

lore alley

he needs to be unusually mature. his main purpose is to interact with another character in the story, but he's also an MC. I need to find something interesting to happen to him as well

mary rosenblum

So what kind of person might be unusually mature, lore?

mary rosenblum

Maybe someone who had to become a 'grown up' at an early age?

mary rosenblum

Maybe became caregiver for a disabled parent at an early age?

mary rosenblum

Maybe left home or was orphaned and lived on his own?

mary rosenblum

Maybe someone who took on a lot of responsibility early?

mary rosenblum

Got involved with a program for the homeless and ended up running it?

mary rosenblum

Do, please, use your private message feature to chat during the forums. It gets hard to read for those people with slow servers, if there is a lot of chat.

mary rosenblum

Or submit comments as questions to the stage, and then they'll be in the transcripts for everyone to read later.

mary rosenblum

By choosing some past history that suggests that early maturity, you open the door to creating an interesting past.

mary rosenblum

And if you're writing a novel, as you flesh out that interesting past, you'll probably create some marvelous potential subplots.

janecj333

Can't a character with improbable background and traits work just as well, maybe better? a surprise to the reader

mary rosenblum

Yes, it can, Jane, but it requires considerable work on the author's part.

mary rosenblum

If you have someone who seems to act out of character with what that person's past suggests...

mary rosenblum

you will have to reveal the complexities of that character that make it NOT out of character at all.

mary rosenblum

It's not enough to create a character who lives only for his own gain, who casually kills someone over...

mary rosenblum

a few dollars, and then suddenly this person turns around and does something marvelously altruistic.

mary rosenblum

'Just because' is not a good enough reason for readers.

davidpro4

How much character background CAN you give?

mary rosenblum

Quite a lot, david, as long as you don't dump it into the story in huge expository lumps. :-)

mary rosenblum

Think about meeting a stranger. His clothes tell you a bit about his background.

mary rosenblum

Every time he opens his mouth you learn a bit more about this background...from accent, vocabulary, regional idioms, what he has to say about people and events...

mary rosenblum

As that character meets friends or is questioned by strangers, we'll learn more.

mary rosenblum

You can keep on slipping in tidbits of background right up until your climax.

mary rosenblum

Where a lot of novice writers get into trouble, is that they try do do an 'info dump' and spend a page or two...

mary rosenblum

simply recounting the MC's background.

mary rosenblum

That stops the foreward momentum of the story, and it's 'spoon feeding' readers.

mary rosenblum

If readers can figure things out from clues, it feels much more real than if you TELL them.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

mummsy

How important are physical descriptions of characters in a story?

mary rosenblum

NOt as important as most novice authors think. :-)

mary rosenblum

A few key details are all you need.

mary rosenblum

And if you're in limited third or first person...which you usually are...it's darn hard to give physical details to the readers...

mary rosenblum

without actually telling 'em.

mary rosenblum

Mostly you want readers to get the gender and skin color right, along with the age, more or less, and the general physical shape.

mary rosenblum

Hair color, eye color, fine details....slip them in if you can't but if you cna

mary rosenblum

can't, don't sweat it.

mary rosenblum

Andrea tossed her red hair back over her shoulder.

mary rosenblum

George looked down at his father. (he's tall).

mary rosenblum

Cary looked up at the teacher. (She's short)

davidpro4

Besides obvious misspells, how do you show accent in print?

mary rosenblum

Orson Scott Card suggested that you use really heavy phonetic spelling for a couple of paragraphs...

mary rosenblum

to imprint the sound of the dialect on the reader...

mary rosenblum

and then use the structure of the dialect, but only the occasional phonetic misspelling.

mary rosenblum

That seems to work pretty well. Readers tend to keep hearing that dialect or accent...

mary rosenblum

and you don't distract 'em with that clumsy phonetic misspelling ...which makes them pay too much attention to the words and not enough to the story.

janecj333

Mothra tripped over his two vestigial feet getting to the squidlet tray first at the lunch buffet.

mary rosenblum

LOL, nice jane. :-)

kungfumama

Can you give an example of that, Mary?

mary rosenblum

You mean the phonetic dialect, kung?

kungfumama

yes.

mary rosenblum

"We..al, y'll knew whar' I cum from, ya don' go to no school...ya werk fer yer livin'.'

mary rosenblum

You do that too long and your readers get a headache.

mary rosenblum

Go read Brian Jacques Redwall series and his Cockney moles!

mary rosenblum

So after you so that heavy handed accent/dialect for a few paragraphs, you start using normal spelling but the structure of the character's sentences.

mary rosenblum

Well, y'all know were I come from, ya don't go to no school, ya work for a livin'.

mary rosenblum

It's a lot easier to read, and I preserved those 'ya', and will drop the occasional final consonant to remind the reader...

mary rosenblum

of how the charater sounds.

geezer

My MC and the bad guys speak a foreign language. Should I dribble a few foreign words in here and there?

mary rosenblum

You can do that, geeze.

mary rosenblum

It seems to work best if you use either very FEW foreign words and suggest another language by altering your sentence structure...

mary rosenblum

from normal conversational English....

mary rosenblum

OR you use a LOT of the language and make sure the readers can infer the meaning from context.

mary rosenblum

If I don't have an expert reader in that langauge or I don't know it, I tend to just use a sprinkling of words and alter the structure.

acook

I've seen in longer novels where the writer will sprinkle the heavy dialect throughout the book to remind the reader

mary rosenblum

You can do that, but you need to make it subtle, acook...if your speaker has been doing the less phonetic version and suddenly his speech is all apostrophes and misspellings, it jars readers.

mary rosenblum

Often a new, minor character will use heavy dialect if most people are supposed to be using it...

mary rosenblum

or you can have a minor character speak entirely in the foreign language if what he/she says is easily inferred.

davidpro4

No good to have the experience if we miss the meaning.

mary rosenblum

Exactly, david.

mary rosenblum

You can also just TELL the reader it's not English. (Ah, you do get to legitimately tell, once in awhile).

mary rosenblum

In my upcoming novel, one of the MCs is bilingual in Mandarin and English...and at times, she is talking...

mary rosenblum

to someone who speaks only Mandarin. The conversation is way too important and complex to actually use the Mandarin, so I just let the reader know she has switched.

mary rosenblum

"You must trust me in this." Ahni switched to Mandarin. "It is the only success we will find."

mary rosenblum

And when I use English to represent a foreign language, I try to stay true to that language's syntax as best I can.

mary rosenblum

Be careful not to include English conversational idiom and slang if your character is speaking, say, German! :-)

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

lorib

when naming characters must you always include first and last?

mary rosenblum

It depends, lorib. Is the last name important to the character? IF so, then yes, find a way to slip it in.

mary rosenblum

I often just use both names when I first bring a character onstage and then drop either first or last...

mary rosenblum

Sometimes I use a first name only, sometimes the character goes by last name only.

janecj333

You switch from one language to antoher to keep someone from knowing what the character is saying? or because it's more elegantly said in the foreign language?

mary rosenblum

In this particular circumstance...my novel...most of the time, it is because the MC is in conversation with a character who does not speak Mandarin...

mary rosenblum

and a character who does not speak English...but at times, it is because the conversation is more forceful in Mandarin than in English or she wants the other person to remain...

mary rosenblum

ignorant of what she is saying to the Mandarin speaker.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

kungfumama

is there ever a time when you would plant the actual foreign language, and provide the translation as a footnote?

mary rosenblum

I would only do that, kung, if it benefitted the story. That would probably be a stylistic benefit, and might work in an experimental piece..

mary rosenblum

where the story was all about style rather than content.

mary rosenblum

Footnotes pull the reader SMACK out of the story and drop them into the cold water of the here and now.

mary rosenblum

That's a lot of shock to the system!

davidpro4

Perhaps translation if meaning isn't obvious from context?

mary rosenblum

Oh yes, david. You can get really elegant that way...

mary rosenblum

If your character says 'hand me that knife' in Swahili and your MC picks up the knife and hands it over, we get the drift.

mary rosenblum

You can get away with a lot of conversational chat...'come to dinner, where is Miquel, how much is that? ...

mary rosenblum

the characters' actions or responses make the meaning roughly clear.

mary rosenblum

Of you have a bilingual character and one who is ignorant of the language...the bilingual is constantly translating.

janecj333

For a character who thinks in his native language, it makes sense to accidently speak in that language even when no one else understands.

mary rosenblum

Sure. And you just make sure that those comments are fairly easy to guess at from contest.

mary rosenblum

If someone drops a heavy book on his/her toe, the following word plus exclamation point is readily comprehensible in ANY language.

geezer

Should foreign words be italicized?

mary rosenblum

Yes...which means in ms format, you underline 'em.

janecj333

And if you speak in Swahili to the man who claims not to be a Swahili speaker, and then he complies, you've learned a lot, too

mary rosenblum

Oh exactly. :-) That's a great little clue in a mystery by the way.

mary rosenblum

If you want your MC to guess that someone is an imposter...

mary rosenblum

most readers will miss it and you can point to it later.

mary rosenblum

A caveat about character backgrounds...

mary rosenblum

be prepared to do some homework.

mary rosenblum

Every life path/career on the planet has its own 'inside speak'.

mary rosenblum

Those are the words that have meaning only to others in this career/life path...

mary rosenblum

and no meaning or a different meaning to outsiders.

mary rosenblum

If you give your character that 'inside speak' vocabulary, you make him/her VERY credible to the readers.

mary rosenblum

If you do not learn that insider speak...not only do people who live that career or life path know that you made it all up...

mary rosenblum

but it does not exceed reader expectations. You don't know any more about that doctor or dog trainer or construction worker than they do...

mary rosenblum

and they're not impressed.

mary rosenblum

They're not getting an inside peak at something cool and unknown and they know it.

mary rosenblum

I get a lot of stories with doctors as characters who no more talk like a doctor than I do.

mary rosenblum

Or lawyers.

mary rosenblum

Or whatever.

mary rosenblum

And TV/Hollywood is not a good resource!

mary rosenblum

No Perry Mason to research your lawyer character!!!

mary rosenblum

However, an interesting an unusual career is gold for you.

mary rosenblum

It increases reader interest and adds to your story.

mary rosenblum

It's worth the work...and you can get a lot of 'insider speak' either directly from individuals...

mary rosenblum

(take a doctor, lawyer, landscape archetect or what have you to lunch and talk)...

mary rosenblum

or try looking for personal memoirs.

mary rosenblum

Some are useful, some are not.

mary rosenblum

Esentially, readers are always curious and an unusual career is 'exotic'.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about your characters' background. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

janecj333

PhD-speak in the real world smacks of affectation, to me. For characters, it would certainly serve to put people in their place.

mary rosenblum

It can serve many purposes, Jane. Both sympathetic and unsympathetic

mary rosenblum

But think about your plot and the role your character will play in it.

mary rosenblum

What kind of past and/or career will add to your plot?

mary rosenblum

This is especially valuable for those of you working on novels...

mary rosenblum

where you're going to want to weave in subplots to support the middle of your story.

mummsy

over-exposure to pretention equals motive

mary rosenblum

It sure can, mummsy, but make it subtle. Readers expect that! :-)

geezer

Ph.D.'s really don't speak any differently than other people unless you get them in their subject area.

mary rosenblum

Exactly.

mary rosenblum

And that's where someone can get into trouble, by creating a really pompous character and the only explanation is that she's a PhD...

mary rosenblum

it's a stereotype.

mary rosenblum

But you can have a MC who goes out for beer with the guys and when the bar is suddenly full of big flying ants...

mary rosenblum

the MC explains carpenter ant life cycle in a degree that only a entymologist could love. :-) Could make for a very fun little scene.

gskearney

Has anyone here who didn't know guessed that I have a Ph.D. in electrical engineering?? --gk

mary rosenblum

LOL Gary.

mary rosenblum

This is a good example of what to be wary of....

mary rosenblum

that stereotypical assumption.

mary rosenblum

'All PhDs talk funny'.

mary rosenblum

Well of course, they don't.

mary rosenblum

Be wary of any description that begins with 'all'. :-)

mary rosenblum

In the mysery genre, an interesting back story or career really is a strong selling point for mystery series.

mary rosenblum

Your series no longer has to depend only the murder-du-jour for interest...

mary rosenblum

your MC can do interesting things through his/ her career path, too.

mary rosenblum

THat's the case in the Amateur Sleuth and Cozy subgenres anyway.

mary rosenblum

You're a bit more limited in the Procedurals, where the MC has to work within the law enforcement field, or the Hardboiled subgenre, where the MC is ...

mary rosenblum

usually a PI or something similar.

mary rosenblum

Remember, the stronger and more memorable your story...at any length...

mary rosenblum

the more likely you are to see it published.

mary rosenblum

So if you can give your MC an interesting background that compliments your plot, you've increased the power of that story.

mary rosenblum

Think about what your plot is about. What could your MC do that either drives him into your story...

mary rosenblum

or gives him or her some interesting activities to include?

mary rosenblum

I wrote a mystery that turned on the murder of a man by someone who wanted his land...

mary rosenblum

and covered up the murder by making it look as if he had died of thirst in the desert.

mary rosenblum

I wanted a MC who was familiar with the desert and its water sources...

mary rosenblum

so I made my MC a geologist.

mary rosenblum

He happened to love the deserts.

mary rosenblum

So I had a MC with a lot of useful knowlege and an eye for details that helped the story.

mary rosenblum

I could have used a local rancher....and that would have brought different details of interest into the story...

mary rosenblum

but the rancher was likely to have looked at water sources with a different point of view...

mary rosenblum

primarily as cattle water sources, whereas the geologist paid more attention to...

mary rosenblum

small, hidden sources that weren't suitable for watering cattle.

mary rosenblum

And he knew more details about the ecology of the desert area than our hard working cattle rancher would be interested in, most likely.

janecj333

I recently read a query for a thriller whose author had worked at a top-secret defense site. That gavehim great cachet, I imagine, with the agent reading the query. But most of us haven't been CIA agents or astronauts or even engineers.

mary rosenblum

Sure, but agents and editors don't expect you to have been in the CIA or worked for the DOD or even been a geologist.

mary rosenblum

The marketing department loves that sort of thing, but the editor or agent wants a good story.

mary rosenblum

The ex CIA agent might have the expertise, but if he can't write a compelling story, too bad.

mary rosenblum

I knew someone in that position. :-) The agent was DYING for this guy to write something he could sell...

mary rosenblum

but this guy was really at beginner level. Last I heard, he still hadn't pulled it off. Oh well.

mary rosenblum

If you do your homework, you SOUND like an expert.

mary rosenblum

I got some very flattering letters, by the way, from a couple of geologists after that particular mystery story got published.

mary rosenblum

It really doesn't take a lot of research to make your MC an expert.

mary rosenblum

It takes more if you're doing a novel.

mary rosenblum

Much much less if you're doing a short story.

mary rosenblum

If you're going to use personal memoir to research your character's particular background...

mary rosenblum

or career, pay attention to the way the writer refers to things and the terms used.

mary rosenblum

It's a good idea to try to find several sources, don't depend on just one.

mary rosenblum

And of course if you know someone in that career -- a cop for example, a lawyer, a doctor --

mary rosenblum

see if that person will read your scene and tell you where you went wrong.

mary rosenblum

I have yet to give my 'cop informant' a scene he can't find something amiss in, sigh.

mary rosenblum

Same thing with my military informant. I'm getting better, but I still miss little details.

mary rosenblum

But those are common careers...

mary rosenblum

If your MC is something fairly rare, say a gem cutter...

mary rosenblum

you're going to need fewer insider details to convince most readers that this person is a real gem cutter. :-)

mary rosenblum

If you meet someone local who has an interesting career, ask that person right then and there if you can pick their brains for details should you...

mary rosenblum

write a story with a character in that career.

mary rosenblum

I do that all the time and have a little file of cards and contact info of people I might want to talk to.

mary rosenblum

But remember...if you character does have an unusual career, such as a gem cutter...

mary rosenblum

that is going to add to your story. Readers tend to love to learn about new things.

mary rosenblum

And...it's fun. :-)

mary rosenblum

I always pick something I want to learn out.

mary rosenblum

Have as much fun as you can with your writing. Why make it a chore?

mary rosenblum

For that matter, if you meet someone who has an interesting sounding lifestyle or career...

mary rosenblum

chat with that person. But that person lunch...see if the details of that life or career don't inspire a story for you.

mary rosenblum

Start yourself a new file and collect interesting 'backgrounds'. :-)

mary rosenblum

Well, this has been an interesting Oregon hour.

mary rosenblum

Do join us tomorrow, same time and place...

mary rosenblum

for our casual chats...when we just talk about whatever and have fun.

mary rosenblum

It's a great place to meet other writers.

mary rosenblum

I'll post this at the usual place...Writing Craft Forum Transcripts.

mary rosenblum

Have a good day, all!

mary rosenblum

And give the characters in your next story an interesting background or career.

 

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