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mary rosenblum
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Hello all!
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you had a very fine
holiday weekend...
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mary rosenblum
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and are looking forward to New
Year. Made your resolutions yet? :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer, talking
about negative main characters and downbeat ends. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the
ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar
won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach
me.
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mary rosenblum
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The topic for this forum was
sparked by quite a number of student ms and even some contest entries.
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mary rosenblum
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Because students and novice
writers LIKE down beat stories...(especially when you're young...heheh...I
remember that stage...)
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mary rosenblum
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And a lot of books on writing
and some writing teachers will tell you that you can't publish downbeat
stories and negative characters
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sailor
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Is it more difficult to get a
downbeat ending story published?
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mary rosenblum
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Yep. You bet.
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mary rosenblum
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So you'd better have a good
reason to do it.
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mary rosenblum
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A lot of novice writers think
that tragedy sells...hey look at Romeo and Juliet...
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mary rosenblum
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but that's not at all true.
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mary rosenblum
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So if you want to do that
downbeat story, do it, but realize it will have to be good enough...
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mary rosenblum
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that even though the editor
would LOVE to reject it...he/she cannot...
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mary rosenblum
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and even though the reader may
curse you afterward, he/she can't put the story down...
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mary rosenblum
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and will read the next one,
too.
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mary rosenblum
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But too often it's seen as a
'shortcut'...
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mary rosenblum
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ah, just add a suicide and
it'll sell even if it's not very well written...
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mary rosenblum
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NOT>
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danny01
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for clarity could you define
downbeat story
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mary rosenblum
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Good question, thanks, Danny.
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mary rosenblum
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A downbeat story is one in
which the character that we CARE about fails.
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mary rosenblum
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That failure might take many
forms...
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mary rosenblum
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the lawyer might lose the
case... (think To Kill a Mockingbird)...
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mary rosenblum
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Or he might fail in other
ways. Ethan Frome is another good example...talk about downbeat endings!
Whew!
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mbvoelker
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Are we talking about downbeat as
in the resolution of the conflict is that we lost? Or downbeat in that
triumph was bought at a heavy price that was not quite higher than the
gain?
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mary rosenblum
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They're both 'downbeat' in the
sense that the reader comes away less than 'happily ever after' thrilled,
mb...
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mary rosenblum
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And actually, the majority of
the 'downbeat' classics are of the second sort.
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mary rosenblum
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In To Kill a Mockingbird, the
main characters do gain some things...
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mary rosenblum
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even though they fail to
resolve the central conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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In Romeo and Juliet, Hamlet,
MacBeth, we have flat out downbeat...
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mary rosenblum
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nobody really WINS.
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mary rosenblum
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And that is THE most difficult
type of downbeat to pull off...and the one that novice writers reach for
first...
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mary rosenblum
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the Romeo and Juliet ending.
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mary rosenblum
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Everybody dies.
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mary rosenblum
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Nobody gets anything.
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mary rosenblum
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And you know what? Better do
it better than Shakespeare!
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mary rosenblum
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That is a VERY tough sell.
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mary rosenblum
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On the other hand, readers are
not idiots...well, not all of them... :-)...they are you and I...
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mary rosenblum
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and most of them are
sophisticated enough to want realism...
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mary rosenblum
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and as we all know, life is
not always a 'happily ever after' story.
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mary rosenblum
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And downbeat endings can
surely be done, but it really does help you if the reader gets SOME payoff
out of it!
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mary rosenblum
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We do want to be entertained,
remember?
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mary rosenblum
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We're not looking for more
reasons to go drown ourselves! :-)
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forest elf
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I like happily ever after. Never
cared for downbeat (hated Ethan Frome). Do most readers like happy or
downbeat? Or do most readers go through phases...or do they like both?
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, I can't STAND Ethan Frome,
forest! Never could figure out why that miserable novelette survived this
long! Reminds me way too much of reality!
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...I can really enjoy a
book where the ending is not upbeat, even if I wish the book could end
another way.
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mary rosenblum
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Mary Renault, a very under
appreciated writer, did these a lot...
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mary rosenblum
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you KNEW that the people in
her books you cared about were going to end badly...
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mary rosenblum
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they were historical figures
and history had already laid down the rules...
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mary rosenblum
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but the characters were so
rich, the story so engaging, that I couldn't avoid them, even though I knew
I was going to hate the end.
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sailor
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Is it fair to say that down
endings work best with plot driven stories? The MC may die, but "the
cause" is successful?
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mary rosenblum
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I think that is the common
assumption, sailor, and I think it's wrong.
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mary rosenblum
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Although it works well for
negative main characters and '
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mary rosenblum
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'come uppance' stories.
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mary rosenblum
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Your readers are more likely
to put up with your downbeat stories if they love your characters...
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...you need to give the
reader something here...
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mary rosenblum
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You need to construct your
story well enough that we see that the end was inevitable for THIS
character.
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mary rosenblum
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He or she laid the path and
walked it and it led only to this inescapable end BECAUSE of the
character's...
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mary rosenblum
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realistic choices.
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mary rosenblum
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The stories I see that do not
work are the ones where the characters have other options...
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mary rosenblum
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but they fling themselves into
the pyre so to speak...
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mary rosenblum
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and it's obvious that the
writer is using that 'tragic ending' as a tool to up the emotional power of
the story...
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mary rosenblum
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but it's a plot element. You
up the emotional power of the story with characters...
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mary rosenblum
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and very few readers are
awfully sympathetic with characters who behave stupidly.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer, talking
about negative main characters and downbeat ends. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the
ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar
won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach
me.
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margieh
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How would you define "come
uppance stories"? Is there a demand? Has the demand changed over time?
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mary rosenblum
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Come upppance stories are the
flip side of the downbeat plot...
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mary rosenblum
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this is a type of story that
uses a negative main character.
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mary rosenblum
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For those of you taking the LR
writing course, Extinction in the Cellualar Age in your book 'Voices' is an
example.
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mary rosenblum
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We have a character we don't
much like and we don't care about...
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mary rosenblum
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and he's a jerk and he gets
his 'come uppance' in the end.
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mary rosenblum
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And this type of story is
usually plot driven...
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mary rosenblum
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because of course, the reader
is NOT going to identify with the negative main character...
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mary rosenblum
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so it's the process of
watching him or her get those just desserts that keep us reading.
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roe
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Love Story is a good example,
but true to life. Death does happen. But I like to read to escape realism
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mary rosenblum
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Love Story is a good example
of that downbeat story, roe, but it DOES have a payoff that leaves the
reader with some satisfaction...
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mary rosenblum
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because the main male
character renconciles with his father.
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mary rosenblum
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And that is a key to downbeat
stories...something good happens to someone we care about...
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mary rosenblum
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even if the MC dies.
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roe
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So if say a killer, committed
suicide, that would be sort of a come uppance
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mary rosenblum
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It could be, roe. Suicide is a
very sharp double edged sword and a downbeat tool that is way overused to
the detriment of the writer trying to sell the story!
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mary rosenblum
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I would avoid it, if I were
you.
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mary rosenblum
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It is VERY hard to do a
suicide that works for readers.
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phil-w
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Was Stephen King's
"Carrie" downbeat? I read it long ago but can't remember.
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mary rosenblum
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gosh, phil, I can't remember.
I read that when it came out...how many decades ago?
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spider
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If the MC has choices or
options, should not the MC be able to make them, even if the result is
downbeat? Are not choices made through motivation?
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mary rosenblum
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Choices ARE made by the
character and through motivation, spider...
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mary rosenblum
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and your task as writer of
that downbeat story...
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mary rosenblum
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is to craft a story where the
character's 'right' choices lead to that end...
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mary rosenblum
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It's the whimsical choices or
the unbelievable choices that turn readers off cold.
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mbvoelker
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I think that the only downbeat
books I've ever enjoyed were a Katerine Kurtz trilogy The Harrowing of
Gywnedd, King Javan's Year, and The Bastard Prince. In King Javan's Year
she had me so caught in the moment-by-moment progress of the plot that I
completely forgot that I knew Javan was doomed. Is that sort of deep
involvement necessary for such a story to succeed?
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mary rosenblum
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Yep. In my opinion and judging
by feedback from many many readers, it sure is...
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mary rosenblum
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and you've just explained why,
mb.
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mary rosenblum
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The payoff is the engaging
story...it'
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mary rosenblum
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It's why I read Mary Renault
even when I KNOW Alexander is doomed and Theseus fails in the end...
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mary rosenblum
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The story is worth the loss of
that character I care about...
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mary rosenblum
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But if the character wasn't
real, I wouldn't be held by the story...
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mary rosenblum
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so you're doing twice the work
with this type of story...
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mary rosenblum
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your character has to be real
enough so that his/her death moves the reader...
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mary rosenblum
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but your story and other
characters have to be so rich and strong that you forgive Author for that
beloved character's end.
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mary rosenblum
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And it's not always
death...the MC can simply fail, dwindle, become less than he/she was.
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spider
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So in order for the downbeat
story to work, the MC's must be well-developed?
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mary rosenblum
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YOu can have very strong plot
driven downbeat stories...
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mary rosenblum
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but if the character is
positive and not negative, in my experience, you are better off to make
this a very well developed character...
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mary rosenblum
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or we just won't care when
he/she fails.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer, talking
about negative main characters and downbeat ends. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the
ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar
won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach
me.
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margieh
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In our fairly relativistic soc.
do most people still agree on the definition of "right" in
"right choices" or do they have to be convinced...
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mary rosenblum
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Margieh, nice question...you
have just hit on the reality of writing for publication that almost nobody
realizes...
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mary rosenblum
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until AFTER you begin selling,
when you start getting fan response...both positive and negative.
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mary rosenblum
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And that reality is 'right' to
you is not 'right' to everyone...
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mary rosenblum
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and if you deal with
controversial issues...my favorite playground...your 'right' is not going
to be 'right' to the majority of your readers...
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mary rosenblum
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and yes, it is your job to
make that choice feel 'right' to the reader...
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mary rosenblum
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even if ...on page one...they
would have said 'wrong choice'. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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You do that through your
character...by showing that 'rightness' to the reader...
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mary rosenblum
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through the character's
thoughts, feelings, actions...
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mary rosenblum
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because telling will never get
past the readers' own beliefs.
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mary rosenblum
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I like to do politics and
social issues in a lot of my stories and I learned VERY early on...
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mary rosenblum
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that if I wanted anyone to
read them...they had to change their minds because they knew and loved the
character...
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mary rosenblum
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and that any telling on my
part ruined the story.
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mary rosenblum
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And it does work. :-) I've had
enough reader feedback...some of it quite grumpy in fact, heheh... to prove
that you CAN...
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mary rosenblum
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make people change their minds
about 'right' and 'wrong' choices.
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ladybug
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Can we apply this same principle
to nonfiction?
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mary rosenblum
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In a way you can, ladybug.
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mary rosenblum
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I've seen some very effective
commentaries that did make some readers at least reevaluate their
beliefs...
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mary rosenblum
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and most of them used
anecdotes...stories...to illustrate the point...
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mary rosenblum
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and it does seem to be the
reader engagement with those brief stories that pries that 'closed belief'
ajar a bit.
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mary rosenblum
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Stories are very powerful
tools.
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mary rosenblum
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We are very resistant to
someone telling us what to think...especially if we don't agree.
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mary rosenblum
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But most people CAN learn and
can change their minds about things they took for granted...
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mary rosenblum
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but we usually do that because
we SEE things that make us rethink...
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mary rosenblum
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and here we are back again at
'show don't tell'. Amazine how that keeps cropping up, yes?
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mary rosenblum
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For example...
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mary rosenblum
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telling someone that the poor
need help, when that person is convinced that all poor people are drug
users and lazy slobs...
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mary rosenblum
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wont' change that person's
mind.
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mary rosenblum
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But if they meet a family that
reminds that reader of his own family...and that reader sees how
circumstance worked against that family...
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mary rosenblum
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the realization that 'there
might go I' may loosen a few convictions...
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mary rosenblum
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But as to downbeat...to get
back on track here...
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mary rosenblum
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the main things to consider
are these:
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mary rosenblum
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Do I have a GOOD reason for
the downbeat end? OR do I just want to increase reader reaction?
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mary rosenblum
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Be honest!
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mary rosenblum
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If you...in the privacy of
your heart...admit that you just want the reader to weep...don't do it!
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mary rosenblum
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You can certainly make the
reader weep...but let the STORY generate that three hankie ending, don't
just slap it on and think it will improve the story.
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mary rosenblum
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And by story, I mean
characters as well as plot.
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mary rosenblum
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A lot of writers make certain
assumptions...
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mary rosenblum
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readers will always feel
sympathy for:
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mary rosenblum
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an abused spouse.
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mary rosenblum
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suicide.
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mary rosenblum
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sudden death.
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mary rosenblum
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Not so folks.
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mary rosenblum
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Far from it, and slush piles
are FULL of those stories...waiting for rejection slips.
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, it's fine to do 'em...but
they have to be strong enough that the editor sends you the check while
grinding his/her teeth. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer, talking
about negative main characters and downbeat ends. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the
ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar
won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach
me.
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mary rosenblum
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As to negative characters,
they can work, even if it's not a come uppance story...
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danny01
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so the reader needs to almost
feel they are the MC while reading?
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mary rosenblum
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That's a goal to strive for in
every story you write, danny. :-) If you achieve that, you really wo'
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mary rosenblum
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won't have any trouble selling
your work, even if the plot is weak.
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mary rosenblum
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Honest.
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margieh
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Is there an answer to the
questions, "Readers will ALWAYS feel sympathy for...?"
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mary rosenblum
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Nope. There isn't margieh...
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mary rosenblum
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readers will feel sympathy for
anything you MAKE them feel symapathy for...
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mary rosenblum
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but any 'situation' thrown in
to elicit reader response is usually pretty obvious to the reader and
doesn't really generate much response.
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mary rosenblum
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You simply make whatever
situation you want to use 'real' and then you have plenty of reader
sympathy.
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mary rosenblum
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But a shallow 'let's throw in
a car accident and make her a paraplegic' doesn't work if the character is
cardboard.
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arfelin
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Could you explain what an
anti-antagonist is?
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mary rosenblum
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Arfelin, I've never heard of
that term, but I"m assuming from the double negative there that it
would be a protagonist. LOL
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe what the person using
the term meant was a negative character who happens to be against the
antagonist, even if he/she is NOT the protagonist.
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mary rosenblum
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Actually, in the SF novel I
just finished critiquing, Alexis Glynn Latner, the author has exactly
that...
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mary rosenblum
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and I don't want to give away
anything about the book...
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mary rosenblum
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but there is a character who
is clearly an 'antagonist' in the story...
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mary rosenblum
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who turns out to be an unexpected
ally against the main 'antagonist'.
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margieh
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How about an anti-hero? What is
an anti-hero?
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mary rosenblum
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I've seen it used to mean the
antagonist, margieh, as well as a main characater who is not likeable...
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mary rosenblum
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buy brings about the
resolution of the story's conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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So take your pick. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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You can have a character who
is not likeable at all, and make that character solve the conflict of the
story...
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mary rosenblum
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it's riskly.
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mary rosenblum
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If your readers don't like
that person, they may not stick out the story.
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mary rosenblum
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But it CAN work well.
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justme
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Like Judas Iscariot
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, I guess that qualifies,
justme. :-)
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justme
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Would you give a strong example
of a negative character?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, Ahab in Moby Dick,
justme.
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mary rosenblum
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Who likes the man, but he
drives the novel.
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mary rosenblum
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The character we care about is
Ishmael of course, but Ahab IS the main character.
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mary rosenblum
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Martin Cruz Smith wrote a book
titled 'Rose'...
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mary rosenblum
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that is a dark mystery set in
the mines in ...I think...Cornwall, back in the 1800s when mining was very
dangerous...
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mary rosenblum
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and the main character is
really unlikable.
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mary rosenblum
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And I have to say, I darn near
put the book aside a half dozen times...
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mary rosenblum
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but the mileau and the other
strong character in the story, and the mystery about her and the mine, was
engaging enough...
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mary rosenblum
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to keep me reading...barely.
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mary rosenblum
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I think it's telling that even
though the book came out when Martin Cruz Smith's popularity was VERY
high...
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mary rosenblum
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the book quickly vanished from
the scene.
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mary rosenblum
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I think it almost didn't work.
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mary rosenblum
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If you really want to tell
this downbeat story, if it is important to you...then DO it.
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mary rosenblum
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But put the extra work into
the characters, the setting, the plot...
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mary rosenblum
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so that the reader HAS to read
it and gains some satisfaction from those aspects, even if you somehow
destroy that main character he/she cares about.
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mary rosenblum
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If you're going to give us a
negative main character...again...
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mary rosenblum
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you can either keep us waiting
for that villain to get his... and these stories can be pretty flimsy,
they're mostly driven by a strong and clever plot...
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mary rosenblum
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or the character is not
likeable, but other characters are, and the story is engaging enough that
we put up with the creep.
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mary rosenblum
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There is a whole sub genre of
mystery stories where we see the villain perpetrate the crime...
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mary rosenblum
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and mainly read to see if
he/she is clever enough to outwit the cops.
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mary rosenblum
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Often these are in first
person. Sometimes that villain succeeds and sometimes not.
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speckledorf
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What about negativity in a
story? How much is too much or is there a way to know?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, it depends, speck.
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mary rosenblum
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Again, you need a REASON for
the negativity.
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mary rosenblum
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If your story takes place in a
whiny, quarreling, totally disfunctional family and the only outcome is
that the main character...
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mary rosenblum
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throws a lamp against the
wall, and nothing much else changes...
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mary rosenblum
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whew. This is probably way too
close to home for a LOT of readers...
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mary rosenblum
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and what do we get out of it?
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mary rosenblum
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Gardner Dozois, the editor of
Asmov's Magazine and winner of MANY awards for his editing...
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mary rosenblum
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has a final judgement that he
uses to measure a story.
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mary rosenblum
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It is this:
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mary rosenblum
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'How am I a better person for
having read this story?'
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mary rosenblum
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What he means by this is not
that he needs a happy ending...
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mary rosenblum
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but rather that the story has
to MATTER in some small way..even if it's very dark...
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mary rosenblum
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and he is the original
'downbeat story' writer, believe me!
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mary rosenblum
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So if the negativity
MATTERS...
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mary rosenblum
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if it leaves us learning
something new, seeing something differently, realizing something that we
hadn't thought of before...
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mary rosenblum
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it works.
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mary rosenblum
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If it's just the setting....well
most readers live with enough negativity every day.
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mary rosenblum
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why do it for fun?
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer, talking
about negative main characters and downbeat ends. If you're new here,
remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word
bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the
ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar
won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach
me.
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mary rosenblum
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lingo, try typing /ask in
front of your questions...I don't see the questions typed in the regular
send bar unless I happen to peek into the auditorium.
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mary rosenblum
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And usually I'm too busy
typing. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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anyway, Lingo asked if it
wasn't important to let the character or villain keep going until the full
story is presented, so that you could end up with something exciting you
hadn't thought of.
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mary rosenblum
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Of course. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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That's what a story does, even
if you think you know where it's headed, most of the time...
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mary rosenblum
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And if you're writing a series
and you want to keep that villain in power for Book Two and on...
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mary rosenblum
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then fine... Let that villain
win.
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mary rosenblum
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But it's a good idea to let at
least one or two of the characters we care about win in a lesser way, but
one that is important to those characters...
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mary rosenblum
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even if your ending leaves us
expecting more trouble later on.
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mary rosenblum
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Why do YOU buy books and read
them?
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mary rosenblum
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Is it to be left wondering
what will happen when book two comes out a year from now, with a 'cut end'
of a plot dangling in your head?
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mary rosenblum
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Is that what YOU look for in a
book?
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mary rosenblum
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You can give a series book a
'downbeat' end in terms of the overarching plot, but it's a good idea to
give the reader some triumph to bring THIS book to closure
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margieh
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The popularity of A Series of
Unfortunate Events is interesting.
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mary rosenblum
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Oh but they're so FUNNY
margieh!
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mary rosenblum
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He does such a marvelous job
of tongue in cheek and he's a darn good writer!
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mary rosenblum
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There's a book that you can
read at different levels depending on your age!
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mary rosenblum
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This series is really humor
and a lovely play on many tropes...
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mbvoelker
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If that was a serious question
-- I read to take myself out of my own, satisfying but uneventful life and
into a world of excitement, adventure, and significance. Not that I don't
know that my life is significant -- just in books its more visible and
immediate. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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It was a serious question, mb.
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mary rosenblum
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I run into a lot of novice
writers who forget that THEY are the readers.
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ling630
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what if 2 characters want center
stage in your story?
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mary rosenblum
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You may have to give it to 'em
if it works, lingo.
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mary rosenblum
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In novel form, more than one
POV character is pretty typical.
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mary rosenblum
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It is harder to pull off in a
short story...you sacrifice reader intimacy when you begin to switch POV...
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mary rosenblum
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but if it works, that's fine.
However, if it's merely easier to switch POV, I'd reconsider.
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roe
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the opening lines are hilarious
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mary rosenblum
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The book is hilarious!
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mary rosenblum
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I read it with the 11 year old
I tutor and we were clearly reading different stories...
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mary rosenblum
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although we were both laughing
at the same time, more often than not...
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roe
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they even have a game out with
the same name, I bought it for my grandson, he loves the books
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mary rosenblum
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Well, it IS getting
commercialized and I cringe at the thought of the movie, but oh well, he
deserves the money. He's a funny and very articulate man.
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mary rosenblum
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I think the main problem
novice writers have with all things tragic and downbeat...
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mary rosenblum
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is that they trust the
'tragedy' to elicit the reader response they want rather than building it
into the story...
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mary rosenblum
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and so it has little or no
power and is an obvious attempt to push the reader's buttons.
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justme
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"Tropes" is?
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mary rosenblum
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Usual forms or uses...sort of
like cliches, justme.
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mary rosenblum
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The evil King...the evil
wizard...the good fairy...
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mary rosenblum
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that sort of thing.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers are quite aware why
authors try to push their buttons...especially editors who get to read it
ALL the time in the slush.
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arfelin
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Anyone know the author of A
Series Of Unfortunate Events?
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mary rosenblum
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His pen name is Lemony Snickett...I
can't remember his real name..
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mary rosenblum
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He's not hiding it.
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mary rosenblum
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Just do a Google search and
you'll find it.
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margieh
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Perhaps a stupid question but:
humor can keep a downbeat story from being a downbeat story, Mary?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure, margieh... Humor seems
to be looking for the laugh in personal tragedy much of the time...
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mary rosenblum
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If you look at some of the
humorous narratives out there, you'll often realize that if you put the
story in the context of serious reality...
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mary rosenblum
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it's a pretty ugly or
miserable situation.
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mary rosenblum
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But by finding the humor of
the situation, we laugh. We don't weep.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a technique for distancing
ourselves from tragedy, in a way.
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mary rosenblum
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Any last questions?
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mary rosenblum
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I'm going to get back to
contest entries.
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mary rosenblum
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We had about sixty
entries...and I've got it narrowed to a final twenty. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Got to bring that down to my
final ten and three 'placing' stories.
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arfelin
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Do you think humor can keep an
interest up with the reader where the MC's negativity lose it?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, arfelin...because humor
IS the story...
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mary rosenblum
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if you're writing humor it
drives the story, the characters aren' t 'real' in terms of being deep and
complex...
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mary rosenblum
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but rather they are 'vivid'.
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mbvoelker
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Wow. I had no idea there would
be so many contest entries!
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mary rosenblum
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Me neither! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Well, I'm going to post the
transcript of the forum in the usual place.
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mary rosenblum
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writing craft: forum
transcripts.
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mary rosenblum
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I should have the contest
winners posted right after New Year's.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll put our placing stories
up on the website and send out an update to let everyone know...
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mary rosenblum
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and I'l list the ten top
stories...
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mary rosenblum
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and some of you all didn't
bother to put a by-line on your stories, so if you
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mary rosenblum
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place or are in the top ten,
you'll get listed by your email address.
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mary rosenblum
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Sheesh, folks, title AND by
line, please! How will an editor send you a check?
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mary rosenblum
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See you all here in the chat
room for our casual chat tomorrow...
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mary rosenblum
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same time same place...
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mary rosenblum
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if you want to talk more about
negative characters drop in...
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mary rosenblum
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I personally love doing them
and have struggled to walk that line between likeable and unlikeable all my
creative life!
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mary rosenblum
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Have a good week all!
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