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mary rosenblum
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Hello all.
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you've had a good week
and are enjoying the summer as the days slowly grow shorter and September
looms on the horizon.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about Dramatic Arc.
I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about
dramatic arc, because it's a word books on writing and writing teachers
throw around a lot. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And often we forget that maybe
the listener doesn't really understand what it means...
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mary rosenblum
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or how to make it happen.
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mary rosenblum
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Essentially it is a
description of the 'shape' of a dramatic plot.
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mary rosenblum
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The story usually begins at a
point. As the Main Character encounters problems and struggles to overcome
them, the tension mounts and the story 'arcs' higher...
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mary rosenblum
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meaning that the MC seems less
likely to succeed, more obstacles loom....
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mary rosenblum
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and finally, at the climax of
the story arc, we come to a 'make or break' moment where our MC may succeed
or fail...
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mary rosenblum
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it is the pivotal point.
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mary rosenblum
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And the choice is made. The
conflict is resolved, the MC either succeeds or fails...
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mary rosenblum
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and the tension of the story
drops way off as it winds down to a close.
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mary rosenblum
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Now not every story on the
planet follows this form!
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mary rosenblum
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And you see it much less in
literary mainstream...
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mary rosenblum
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but it's pretty typical of the
other genres.
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mary rosenblum
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That dramatic arc might be
very steep...our MC encounters physical threats and dangers and the tension
of 'will she live or die' is very strong...
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mary rosenblum
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or it might be 'flatter' as a
pair of lovers wrangle and edge closer to breaking up, or a father and son
converge on a confrontation.
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mary rosenblum
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But it is the engine that
drives a lot of fiction...
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mary rosenblum
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that continuously increasing
tension of 'will the MC suceed or fail'?
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mary rosenblum
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Of course..
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mary rosenblum
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the question is just how do
you make that happen?
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mary rosenblum
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And that's the hard part to
explain. You can 'know' when it happens, but how do you tell someone how to
do it step by step? :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Essentially, you are 'upping
the ante'.
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mary rosenblum
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Think of a story as a series
of conflicts and resolutions, not just one.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, you have a main one...the
central conflict and resolution that is your plot.
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mary rosenblum
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But as your MC strives to
reach that climax, things will get in his or her way.
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pthib
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is it easier for plot writers or
writers that outline?
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mary rosenblum
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You mean writers who just plot
as they go, compared to those who outline?
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pthib
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yes
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mary rosenblum
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Well, I don't think it's
'easier'' either way. :-) You have to do what works for you.
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mary rosenblum
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But if roughing out scenes
ahead of time works for you, it will probably save you considerable
rewriting later.
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mary rosenblum
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Because you can get a sense of
that dramatic arc before you committ 90,000 words to paper...
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mary rosenblum
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and adust any flat spots
accordingly.
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pthib
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should you know the Black Moment
before you write?
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mary rosenblum
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It is a very good idea to know
what your climax is.
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mary rosenblum
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I generally know that. I may
not know my ending. :-) Or I may be wrong about my ending.
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mary rosenblum
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But if you know where you
intend to go...what peak you're striving for...
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mary rosenblum
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you can 'aim' in that
direction and you're less likely to wander off on overly long side paths
that deflate the story.
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ducky
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Your phrase "upping the
ante" resonates - In my big project right now, I've got two characters
who are being manipulated by a background agenda. The agenda at work wants
these two to move in a certain direction, but getting them to do it is like
herding cats. It's one obstacle after another, of increasing intensity. Is
that what you mean by that phrase?
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, ducky.
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mary rosenblum
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You know what direction you're
heading...your character has a central conflict to deal with.
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mary rosenblum
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Say our kid is trying to prove
to Dad that he's as good as his brother who was killed in the war.
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pthib
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what if your story is full of
"black" moments?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, your story really needs
the one where at that point, your MC is either going to succeed or fail,
depending on his/her choice.
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mary rosenblum
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You can even have more,
smaller conflicts after your climax, but right there, he/she is going to
choose a path that will resolve that central conflict...
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mary rosenblum
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or choose a path that will
fail to resolve the central conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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If you just have lots of small
peaks, or 'black moments'...you can end up with something like a flat
line...
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mary rosenblum
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and sooner or later your
reader gets tired of black moments and quits.
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mary rosenblum
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Yo'ure not going anywhere...no
one thing is at stake to keep us reading (does she succeed? Will she blow
it?)
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ducky
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Can a story be full of
"peaks and valleys" but still be marching toward the Black
Moment?
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mary rosenblum
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Of course. Unless you're
writing a short short, you build tention and rise toward your peak by
throwing...
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mary rosenblum
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obstacles in front of your MC.
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mary rosenblum
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Each time the MC struggles
with that obstacle, you increase the tension.
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mary rosenblum
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The next obstacle is a bit
more important, a bit bigger...
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mary rosenblum
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the tension rachets up again.
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mary rosenblum
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A new obstacle, a new
struggle...up again.
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mary rosenblum
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The early obstacles might be
rather low key, and more designed to reveal backstory than raise tension.
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mary rosenblum
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As you progress, the obstacles
might become harder to deal with and more directly related to your climax
event.
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dwkav
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Lord of the Rings comes to mind
here. Frodo and the gang encounter one obstacle after another until,
finally, Frodo and Sam destroy the ring.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, and that complex and
sprawling novel covers several major dramatic arcs...
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mary rosenblum
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but let's look at that.
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mary rosenblum
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Generally the obstacles are
external and physical...they are set upon by the dark riders...
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mary rosenblum
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on their way to Rivendell,
they have to overcome attacks and hardships on the road...
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mary rosenblum
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but as they get closer to the
finale in the third book, the hardships come one after the other in Morder
and are much more intense.
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mary rosenblum
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If you separate that arc from
the others in the story, you can see the rising arc very clearly. You have
bigger peaks and smaller ones, but overall..
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mary rosenblum
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the intensity rises to the
climax on Mt. Doom.
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lore alley
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I have a hard time figuring out
what the climax of my story is. Lots of tension, just can't figure out
where it's going. I assume that's bad :-) How do I fix it?
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mary rosenblum
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It's not bad as long as you
can figure out what your conflict is, lore. Sooner or later. :-0
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mary rosenblum
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-)
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mary rosenblum
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Then you can resolve it.
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mary rosenblum
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Sometimes that is the
problem...
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mary rosenblum
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you're really not sure what
the central conflict IS.
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mary rosenblum
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Especially if you have an
action packed story where everybody is busy staying alive.
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mary rosenblum
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Sometimes you have to step
back and ask yourself...what is really at stake here and for whom?
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about Dramatic Arc.
I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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I see a lot of novice stories
where characters are hacking their way through attack after attack...
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mary rosenblum
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and conflict is
everywhere...but there is no dramatic arc.
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mary rosenblum
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Just a whole lot of fighting.
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mary rosenblum
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Generally, you create your
dramatic arc by focusing on the conflict of one person.
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mary rosenblum
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Your MC.
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mary rosenblum
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If you have a lot of
characters, Lore, and you haven't really focused on one as your central
MC...
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mary rosenblum
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you may be having difficulty
creating an arc because you're defusing your dramatic tension as you
shift...
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mary rosenblum
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from character to character to
follow each one.
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mary rosenblum
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Generally, you have trouble
creating a strong dramatic arc without a strong central character.
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ducky
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If you have more than one MC (I
have two) is it too distracting to swap off conflicts between the two of
them - shifting POVs from scene to scene, for example?
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mary rosenblum
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Not at all, ducky.
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mary rosenblum
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I usually have two POV
characters, and swap scenes.
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mary rosenblum
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I may not alternate chapters
religiously...I might have two chapters in one POV, then switch to the
other.
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mary rosenblum
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But try let both POV
characters share the same central conflict.
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mary rosenblum
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That way both POVs support
your dramatic arc.
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mary rosenblum
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They can have divergent
conflicts that must be resolved, too...conflicts that don't necessarily
involve the other POV.
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mary rosenblum
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But the conflict they share
and must resolve together will create a strong dramatic arc to support the
story.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about Dramatic Arc.
I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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ducky
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Yeah, these two definitely have
separate sets of nasty emotional baggage, but it all leads to the same
place. Could you comment on ways of illustrating internal emotional
conflict vs. external physical conflict?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure. Internal conflict is
going to be revealed through your character's mental and emotional reaction
to events.
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mary rosenblum
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The character can betray that
through speech, thought, or physical reactions. (He turns pale. Startles.
Clenches his teeth and looks away).
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mary rosenblum
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The external conflicts are
things like attacks, a stalled truck when he has a deadline...that sort of
thing.
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charie'
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If you have multiple plotlines
with several major characters all heading for the same Black Moment, do
their peaks and valleys all follow the same rhythm or is it better to vary
them?
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mary rosenblum
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YOu can 'trade off' on those
peaks to keep your novel moving, charie.
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mary rosenblum
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While one character has to
help granny get to her doctor's appointment and can't do much, the other is
spying on the strange family that just moved in.
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mary rosenblum
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This is one of the ways you
create a strong dramatic arc in novels...
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mary rosenblum
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your main characters can each
contribute strong 'peaks' of dramatic action or reaction to keep the
tension rising.
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charie'
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Not just trading peaks and
valleys, but more lulls with actions.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, same thing really. But
certainly if one character is taking a break, it's a good idea to turn to
the other...
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mary rosenblum
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and let that one build a small
dramatic peak to take the main dramatic arc higher.
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mary rosenblum
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You really don't want a scene
where Nothing Much Happens.
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mary rosenblum
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It might not be an action
filled scene...
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mary rosenblum
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but someone should dicover
something, find something, advance the plot somehow!
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mary rosenblum
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You want the readers to feel
that they are one step closer to that climax, at the end.
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ducky
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From what you say you could do a
regular "round robin" with a "...meanwhile, back at the
ranch, guess what just hit the fan..." with any number of characters
interacting toward a climax, yes?
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mary rosenblum
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But of course you do it
subtly. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And if you have a host of
characters, then it does take on that 'back at the ranch' feel...
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mary rosenblum
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because readers don't have the
chance to feel intimate with any character before you bounce into the next
POV.
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lore alley
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I have an MC and I know what
he's dealing with. I just have such a hard time focusing the plot to rising
arc/conflict/resolution... I like to sprawl, lol!
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mary rosenblum
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Yeah, nearly everybody does at
first, lore.
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mary rosenblum
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But alas, readers have a very
limited tolerance for sprawl.
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mary rosenblum
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If they don't feel they know
where the plot is going, they tend to put the book down and forget to pick
it up.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu can get away with some.
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mary rosenblum
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Some novels are simply more
tightly paced than others...but at a certain point, it's simply flat.
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mary rosenblum
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The dramatic arc becomes
sooooooooo spread out that it now seems like a plain rather than a peak.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about Dramatic Arc.
I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you have.
If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question'
button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the
screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if
that works better for you..
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megger
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Hi Mary. My conflict is
virtually all internal, my MC going back & forth on one more major
decision. Does external conflict work better than internal conflict?
Wouldn't want anyone to start snoring!
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mary rosenblum
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Well, megger, many successful
novels are based on internal conflicts, but generally, external conflicts
support and contribute to that internal dramatic arc.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, if your character sits on
the sofa for 340 pages and agonizes over her relationship with her
mother.......ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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mary rosenblum
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But she can do things, get
herself into corners, have problems with friends, all of which illustrate
that problem with her mother...
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mary rosenblum
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and then we have that external
action that supports that central conflict.
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charie'
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I have two time sequences going,
one in the present and one in the past leading to the present. They
intersect in the near future.
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mary rosenblum
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Sounds like a dual plot novel,
charie.
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mary rosenblum
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In a dual plot or parallel
plot novel...
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mary rosenblum
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you have two complete and
separate stories that only converge near the end of the book, and generally
share the climax.
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mary rosenblum
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And while you go back and
forth between them, they are separate arcs that happen to share a climax.
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mary rosenblum
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Loiuse Marley did this in her
Glass Harmonica, where she followed a story in the modern world...
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mary rosenblum
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and simultaneously the story
of a girl who lived in Ben Franklin's time
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mary rosenblum
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They converge at the end.
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charie'
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My MC is a minor part of the
secondary plot, the main players in the secondary plot facilitate the MC's
story.
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mary rosenblum
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Sounds as if you have two
separate dramatic arcs though, yes?
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lore alley
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so if I just keep writing and
handing stuff to readers, eventually I'll get from "manuscript? oh
yeah... that one... " to "hey that was actually pretty
good..."?
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mary rosenblum
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Yeah, if you keep on trying to
make things stronger, listening to your readers, analyzing waht you read...
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mary rosenblum
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that's how you learn. :-) It's
how you get better.
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charie'
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They'll all end up fighting a
common foe
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mary rosenblum
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Which is your convergence.
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charie'
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I think the convergence is the
Black Moment, How can I tell?
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mary rosenblum
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Will it resolve your central
conflict? Can your MC fail there?
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mary rosenblum
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If so, that's probably your
climax.
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charie'
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Yes
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mary rosenblum
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Sounds like your climax to me.
:-)
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mary rosenblum
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Some of your early conflicts
can simply help create your character...
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mary rosenblum
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and reveal your universe,
while advancing your plot...
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mary rosenblum
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but as you get closer to the
climax, generally, the conflicts your characters encounter have more to do
with the oncoming climax.
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ducky
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Could you suggest a SciFi story
or book where the MC's perception of life as a human gets challenged in a
big way?
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mary rosenblum
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A lot of that type of story
exists in the genre, ducky.
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mary rosenblum
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I think you can find some of
that recently, in Greg Bear's Darwin's Radio and Darwin's Children.
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mary rosenblum
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In Nancy Kress Beggers and
Strangers.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a major theme in my next
SF book, actually.
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sallyk
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I think you've mentioned the arc
in terms of NF in the past...could you again?
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mary rosenblum
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You really get 'dramatic arc'
mostly in personal narrative, sally...
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mary rosenblum
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where you're using the devices
of fiction to tell a true story.
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mary rosenblum
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And you build to your climax
moment, whether it's humor or tragedy, in the same way.
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mary rosenblum
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For informational pieces,
you're not really dealing with 'drama', in terms of tension and
expectations, as you are dealing..
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mary rosenblum
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with organization so that you
lead the reader neatly through a logical progression.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about Dramatic Arc.
I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
|
The way you increase the
'steepness' of your dramatic arc...
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mary rosenblum
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is to increase the frequency
of the smaller conflicts the MC must overcome.
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mary rosenblum
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And you stick to your main
character or two, leaving out your secondaries for now.
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mary rosenblum
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The more often your character
must encounter obstacles, the more tension you generate.
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mary rosenblum
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Now you can...as with all
aspects of writing...go overboard with this!
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mary rosenblum
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And simply beat on your
character so much that your reader begins to groan and hope the book ends
soon! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Remember that less can be
more.
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mary rosenblum
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It's like the slasher movies
where they have to buy fake blood by the 50 gallon drum!
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mary rosenblum
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The blood sloshes all over the
scene and pretty soon it's boring and kind of repulsive rather than
horrifying.
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mary rosenblum
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And you can create a story
where the single stroke of a razor and beads of blood welling up along the
white lips of the cut...
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mary rosenblum
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will make your reader shiver
and tremble.
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mary rosenblum
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No more blood. I promies. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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But what I'm saying is that
cliff hanger after cliff hanger starts to look very obvious very quickly.
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mary rosenblum
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Build up to your climax. Maybe
your MC is trying to break into the castle. He first has trouble getting by
the guard dragon, but sneaks past...
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mary rosenblum
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then he nearly falls off the
wall as he climbs to the window, but he doesn't fall...
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mary rosenblum
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and only when he has seized
the gems is he confronted by the guard.
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mary rosenblum
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Notice that the intensity of
each set back rises?
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mary rosenblum
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He's sneaking in the first, he
slips and nearly falls in the second...much more dramatic...and for the
third, he has to draw his sword and fight for his life.
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charie'
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But don't you want to 'hook' the
reader at the end of the chapter?
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mary rosenblum
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well, you should always end a
chapter with a strong ongoing momentum ...something that the reader expects
will happen later.
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mary rosenblum
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A cliff hanger can work, but
do it too often and readers start snickering.
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mary rosenblum
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I loved the first Indiana
Jones movie. I timed the cliff hangers. Every 15 minutes like clockwork.
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mary rosenblum
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But if you end the chapter
with the MC's intention to visit the haunted house that night...don't
worry, the reader isn't going to leave town.
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charie'
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Aha. Foreshadowing the next
peak.
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mary rosenblum
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yep.
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mary rosenblum
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Part of pacing...which is part
of dramatic arc...is foreshadowing, so your reader always anticipates cool
stuff yet to happen.
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mary rosenblum
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If you focus on the
moment...we do this and it's done...
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mary rosenblum
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with no sense of 'something wicked
this way comes'...
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mary rosenblum
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you'll have a pretty flat
dramatic arc.
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mary rosenblum
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The more you add events that
could happen in the near future and cause major problems...
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mary rosenblum
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the more you increase the
tension and steepen that arc.
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mary rosenblum
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Will the extra troops arrive
in time? Will it rain and put out the fire? Will the message get through?
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mary rosenblum
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If you character plods along
dealing with whatever shows up in front of him/her and that's it...you have
a video game. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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AS your character deals with
events, more and more probabilities begin to accrue.
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mary rosenblum
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This could happen. That might
not happen. What if this happens?
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mary rosenblum
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And they build the dramatic
arc layer by layer.
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mary rosenblum
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It's not just action and
reaction, it's also expectation...of problems, of successes, of love, of
danger.
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mary rosenblum
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The 'will it happen' adds to
the tension and steepens the dramatic arc.
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mary rosenblum
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So you have these tools:
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mary rosenblum
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frequency of
conflicts/resolutions, intensity of conflicts/resolutions, and expectations
of events.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a complex thing..pacing
and dramatic arc.
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mary rosenblum
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You'll do it long before
you'll have a clue just WHAT you're doing.
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mary rosenblum
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The nice thing about writing,
is you can do it by 'feel'...you know when something works...
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mary rosenblum
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and only figure out how you
are doing it when you try to explain to someone else how to do it.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about Dramatic Arc.
I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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But this is also why a lot of
books on writing don't really get into pacing.
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mary rosenblum
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They just tell you to do it.
:-)
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ducky
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It is so easy, as a beginner, to
NOT trust that gut feeling, and yet, that feeling is usually correct, isn't
it?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, yes and now.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes and no.
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mary rosenblum
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You're usually better than you
think and you're usually not as good as you think both at the same time.
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mary rosenblum
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By that I mean, you're
probably doing better than you think. Most of us are pretty hard on
ourselves.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...you're probably not
translating what you KNOW about your story in such a way that your readers
can share it.
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mary rosenblum
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That's where craft comes in.
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mary rosenblum
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It takes some time and
practice to see why the story that feels solid to you didn't move those
readers.
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mary rosenblum
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As you get better at
translating those personalities and powerful visuals, the sensory landscape
and mood into words...
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mary rosenblum
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so that nearly all your
readers share the same fully fleshed universe you do, you'll get better.
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mary rosenblum
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The story might be just as
good...it'll just translate in 3-D living color.
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mary rosenblum
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That's why a 'good idea' isn't
all you need.
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mary rosenblum
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It's the ability to translate
that good idea so your reader shares it.
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ducky
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Sounds like a dramatic arc to
me. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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-)
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mary rosenblum
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But a rather flat dramatic arc
is a very common problem in novice stories.
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mary rosenblum
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Especially in novels where the
middle can flatten out.
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mary rosenblum
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When you're doing novel form,
every chapter really needs a dramatic arc.
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mary rosenblum
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It doesn't have to be a steep
arc, but it should be an arc.
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mary rosenblum
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And it can end at the top of
the arc, if you want to do a cliff hanger.
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mary rosenblum
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One tip there.
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mary rosenblum
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If you're going to end a scene
or chapter with a cliff hanger...don't pick it up way later in the story.
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mary rosenblum
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The dramatic power will have
gone flat.
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mary rosenblum
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Come back to it fairly
quickly.
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mary rosenblum
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Or your readers will have
forgotten what was going on and the tension is lost.
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mary rosenblum
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And remember that you build
dramatic arc...
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mary rosenblum
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by increasing the intensity of
the obstacles your MC deals with.
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mary rosenblum
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If they're all equally
intense, you get a flat line. And the reader gets desensitized after a bit.
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mary rosenblum
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Increasing the frequency of
the obstacles also steepens the dramatic arc.
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mary rosenblum
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And as the dramatic arc
steepens, your pacing increases.
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mary rosenblum
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Each scene has its own
dramatic arc, as does each chapter. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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These smaller dramatic arcs
are all part of the larger one, the central conflict and resolution.
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ducky
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Now there is a sticky wicket for
me - what constitutes a chapter? I write in scenes but have trouble
stringing them into chapters. ??
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mary rosenblum
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Well, that's sort of an
individual rhythm, ducky.
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mary rosenblum
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They can be one scene or a
couple of scenes.
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mary rosenblum
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Generally, I have a dramatic
arc in mind for a chapter...something happens here...
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mary rosenblum
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and when that something has
happened, I am ready to move on to the next chapter.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a good place to switch
POV too.
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mary rosenblum
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In some genres, chapter length
matters...books for younger readers tend to have shorter chapters..
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mary rosenblum
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but it's otherwise up to you.
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mary rosenblum
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Some thrillers have many very
short chapters.
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mary rosenblum
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Some novels have veeery long
chapters.
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mary rosenblum
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I think Bradbury's Farenheit
451 has what...four sections?
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ducky
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So the logical bracketing would
be a series of scenes that significantly advance the plot?
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mary rosenblum
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Or a series of scenes that
share an overarching dramatic arc, ducky.
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mary rosenblum
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I generally do one to two
scenes in a chapter.
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mary rosenblum
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If it wants to run longer than
that, I may redefine the chapter and break it into two.
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mary rosenblum
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But that is my rhythm.
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mary rosenblum
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I tend to write 15 - 20 page
chapters.
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mary rosenblum
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My buddy Mike Moscoe does like
5 -10 page chapters.
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mary rosenblum
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Different rhythm.
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mary rosenblum
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No right or wrong. It just has
to work.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
Oregon hour. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I'll have to do a Forum on
chaptering.
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mary rosenblum
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Will do! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks for coming, all!
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mary rosenblum
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I'll hopefully see you on
Sunday, although I might be late.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm scribing for a herding
trial. (Keeping score for the judge)
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post the transcript in
the usual place.
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mary rosenblum
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Writing Craft: Forum
Transcript
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mary rosenblum
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Good night all!
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