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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all!
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you had a great
weekend.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about rejection slips today. If you're new here, remember that you
need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to
the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question
icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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I am in revision mode...working
on the novel ms that is due in in early August and that means only about20%
of my 'ram' is available for anything else. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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But I'll try to keep on task
today.
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about
rejections and rejection slips because this is the wall that most often
stops new writers.
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mary rosenblum
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And rejections are a fact of
life as a writer...you will NEVER stop getting them, unless you only
write...
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mary rosenblum
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for the few markets where you
are sure you will sell that piece.
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mary rosenblum
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And that limits you
enormously.
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mary rosenblum
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And they do have a lot of
impact, and you really do have to learn how YOU can live with them.
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mary rosenblum
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And it helps to hear over and
over again the reality of what a rejection slip actually MEANS.
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mary rosenblum
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Nearly everybody sees a
rejection as a 'this isn't good enough' message at first...I did, everybody
does when they start out.
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mary rosenblum
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We all tend to believe that
the editor read the piece, judged it, and found it wanting.
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mary rosenblum
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So they can be crushing.
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mary rosenblum
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It's not until much later,
when editors and publishers are among your personal friends...
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mary rosenblum
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that you begin to understand
that there are many many reasons an editor buys this piece and not that
piece...
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mary rosenblum
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and quality is only one of
those many factors...
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mary rosenblum
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and the others are simply not
within your control.
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mary rosenblum
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When you're starting out and
you do not yet have the validation of publication, fan enthusiasm, good
reviews...
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mary rosenblum
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you really don't have any
indicators of 'good' or 'not good' except your own faith in your work...
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mary rosenblum
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and for most of us, that's a
pretty shaky thing to depend on when you're a beginner!
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mary rosenblum
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So it's very hard NOT to see those
rejections as a judgement of quality.
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mary rosenblum
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But you really need to try
hard not to....because you're going to get a ton of rejections...
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mary rosenblum
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and most people who quit
writing do so because they get a handful of rejections, decide they're 'not
writers' and stop.
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mary rosenblum
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In a way, those rejections are
a 'butt-headed stubbornness' test. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Those who simply keep banging
their heads against that wall eventually bust their way through...
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mary rosenblum
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and those who aren't
stupid...er...stubborn enough to keep banging their head against a wall do
something less painful. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Let me go into how an editor
selects which fiction and nonfiction pieces to buy.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about rejection slips today. If you're new here, remember that you
need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to
the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question
icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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Editors feel about their
magazine or novel about as strongly as you feel about what you write.
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mary rosenblum
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They put a lot of creative
effort into putting each isuse of a magazine together...
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mary rosenblum
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or the quality of the book
they produce.
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mary rosenblum
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Each magazine issue will have
some kind of overt theme or unifying feature.
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mary rosenblum
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In a nonfiction magazine such
as Sunset, for example, or Outdoor Life...
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mary rosenblum
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the issue will be anchored by
one or more features that will relate to each other in some way...
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mary rosenblum
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in Sunset, it might be a feature
on naturally landscaped homes in California that feature lots of outdoor
living space...
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mary rosenblum
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and will be balanced by a big
food feature on patio entertaining.
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mary rosenblum
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And the other articles in the
magazine will relate to this outdoor/living/entertaining theme in some way.
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wingedwarrior24
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Do authours know before hand
what theme will be in play for that issue?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, and no.
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mary rosenblum
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The editor plans issues about
six to nine months out from the current issue, most of the time...
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mary rosenblum
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and will often give regular
contributors assignments for those key articles...
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mary rosenblum
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then acquiring the smaller
'filler' articles during the months leading up to that issue.
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mary rosenblum
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Some magazines will publish
their 'themes' in their writers guidelines, but most do not.
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mary rosenblum
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A fiction magazine will be
anchored on two or three...
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mary rosenblum
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really strong pieces usually
from name authors...
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mary rosenblum
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and then the editor will try
to find stories that 'work with' those main, anchor stories.
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mary rosenblum
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So your query might be a good
topic, for example, and suit the magazine...
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mary rosenblum
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but the editor has the next
twelve issues planned out and it won't fit.
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mary rosenblum
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So you get a no thanks.
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mary rosenblum
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Now usually, if you have
submitted professionally and what you sent is something that the editor
might use, but simply does not need...
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mary rosenblum
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you'll get a 'try us again'
sort of rejection.
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mary rosenblum
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If you get NO response to a
query, you missed the target.
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mary rosenblum
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Either your query was
unprofessional or you simply failed to offer the editor something
appropriate for that magazine.
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mary rosenblum
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For your fiction submission...
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mary rosenblum
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and nonfiction, for that
matter...
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mary rosenblum
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the editor may well have
something very similar in house already.
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mary rosenblum
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I have rejected several
articles for the LR Website recently because they were simply too similar
to things I had already accepted.
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mary rosenblum
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Readers don't want the same
thing repeated.
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mary rosenblum
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Stories are like that, too.
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mary rosenblum
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If the editor has a story very
similar to yours in inventory, he/she MAY choose to buy it, but that means
it probably will sit in inventory for more than a year...
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mary rosenblum
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and that isn't fair to you.
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mary rosenblum
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But alas, you don't get those
reasons.
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mary rosenblum
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You just get a form.
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mary rosenblum
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Yeah, that seems unfair, and
it is to an extent...
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mary rosenblum
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but editors ARE busy, they are
not highly paid and editors with a high submission volume learn early on...
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mary rosenblum
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that there is no good way to
reject a story. So they use forms.
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wingedwarrior24
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Is it appropriate to send a
rejected peice to the same editor?
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mary rosenblum
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Usually not unless that editor
has offered a specific criticism, winged.
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mary rosenblum
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You have NO idea why that
piece was rejected otherwise, and if the editor has two similar stories in
house...
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mary rosenblum
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your 'fixing' this one won't
sell it. And unnecessary submissions really irritate editors.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't forget...editors have
GREAT memories.
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mary rosenblum
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If you are turning in stories
that are pretty good and getting better...
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mary rosenblum
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those form rejections hide the
fact that the editor IS watching you grow...
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mary rosenblum
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and will buy from you
eventually.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...if you are a continual
irritation...that gets remembererd, too! :-) And your name gets passed
around at conferences.
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mary rosenblum
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If an editor says, 'I liked
this until I got to the end and there wasn't one'.
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mary rosenblum
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And you can give the story a
stronger end...then send it back...
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mary rosenblum
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with a nice letter saying,
'you were right and this does work better with a strong end!'.
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mary rosenblum
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Most of the time, the editor
will read it and reconsider it...THAT is why he/she gave you the critique
in the first place.
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mary rosenblum
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But if you get a form, don't
resub.
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mary rosenblum
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You simply do not know WHY
that story was rejected.
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geezer
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If they ask for manuscript
submissions via e-mail and they don't rep;y, does that mean a reject too,
or that they're still thinking.
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mary rosenblum
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We're ALL impatient when we
begin.
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mary rosenblum
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It takes a lot of time to
realize the glacial pace at which publishing moves! lOL
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mary rosenblum
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And a 'reasonable' response
time to a new writer is usually WAY too short.
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mary rosenblum
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What does sometimes happen is
that the editor will hold a new writer's piece, waiting for a particularly
strong issue to stick that article or story into.
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mary rosenblum
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Realize that as a fiction
writer, your first couple of stories are simply taking up space in the
mag...nobody but your mom will buy an issue because your story is in it.
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mary rosenblum
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The editor is building your
name for you.
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mary rosenblum
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So they don't stick more than
maybe one first time author in most issues.
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mary rosenblum
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And they want an issue that
stands solidly on its own without your story. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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So they may hold your story,
waiting, especially if they pay on acceptance...
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mary rosenblum
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then they really don't want to
have it sitting in inventory.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...
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mary rosenblum
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the realities of cyber
submission is that more go astray than snail mail submissions do.
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mary rosenblum
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If the magazine doesn't have
some sort of auto reply feature and you hear nothing for about 1 1/2 time
the 'response time' listed in the guidelines...
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mary rosenblum
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then query. 'Did you get my
piece? Would you like me to resend?"
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about rejection slips today. If you're new here, remember that you
need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to
the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question
icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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roe
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I've gotten used to those forms,
what I can't get used to is not receiving anything. especially when I
include SASE
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mary rosenblum
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That's very unprofessional on
the editor's part, roe, and it hasn't been my experience among the
established editors.
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mary rosenblum
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It may be more of a trait of
small press and new publications...
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mary rosenblum
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where a hopeful publisher is
quickly overwhelmed with bills, submisisons, and the hard realities of
trying to make a magazine work...
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mary rosenblum
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and let's face it...if it's a
tiny magazine and nobody much seems to care, editors/publishers can get
really sloppy about treating writers professionally.
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mary rosenblum
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Of course they won't see any
serious pro again...
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mary rosenblum
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that kind of reputation gets
around quickly and who wants to tie up a saleable story with someone...
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mary rosenblum
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who might let it sit on the
desk forever?
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mary rosenblum
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I strongly suggest you keep a
submission log and make a note when you hear nothing.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't send your stuff there
after that.
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mary rosenblum
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Now it DOES seem to be pretty
common for NF editors to simply not respond to a query even with a SASE...
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mary rosenblum
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and there, I suspect you're
mostly seeing a 'you didn't send me anything appropriate' response.
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mary rosenblum
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NF editors will NOT encourage
you if they feel you have not done your homework...you're not going to send
them something they can use, anyway.
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karin1130
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What happens when you hear
nothing and then get a check?
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mary rosenblum
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You cash it. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I've had that happen.
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mary rosenblum
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Usually you get a contract,
but F & SF magazine still sends you a check...
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mary rosenblum
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and a letter that says 'if you
cash this check you are agreeing to sell us these rights'.
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mary rosenblum
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You should know what rights
the magazine is purchasing of course...they are listed in the guidelines.
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mary rosenblum
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If you cash the check you are
agreeing to sell those rights.
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mary rosenblum
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Do give editors more time than
they say they need before you query, but then DO query if a ms seems to
have vanished.
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mary rosenblum
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I've been IN some of those
editorial offices, LOL.
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mary rosenblum
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You could lose a half grown
steer in some of 'em! LOL
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mary rosenblum
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Ms DO go missing, and as I
said, cyber gremlins eat a lot of email and attached files.
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speck
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Just one thing...when you do
query (which we don't mind)...be polite and professional. Sigh.
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mary rosenblum
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Yep. Exactly.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember...your piece is only
one of MANY on the editor's desk and he/she really doesn't HAVE to publish
anything more from you...
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mary rosenblum
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unless you are Stephen King.
So if you are not, be polite.
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mary rosenblum
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There are a couple of rude
people who are highly unlikely to ever see any of their work appear on the
LR website. :-)
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gskearney
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Be sure to include the tittle,
your name and the date sent in your query. --gk
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mary rosenblum
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Good point, Gary!
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, remember that a large
circulation magazine gets more than a hundred submissions every week...they
usually have system to log them in...
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mary rosenblum
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so you need to provide title
and date sent.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about rejection slips today. If you're new here, remember that you
need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to
the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question
icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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tolkienlvr
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Mary, for Karin, she says the
editor already published the piece, then she got the check...
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mary rosenblum
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Hmmm..that happens sometimes
with small press publications, but it's not real professional. Again...be
sure you know what rights the publisher is asking for...
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mary rosenblum
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before you submit. And read
the guidelines all the way through.
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mary rosenblum
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They may say that by
submitting, you are agreeing to publish by these terms.
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mary rosenblum
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I've seen that.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu do need to think ahead.
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mary rosenblum
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At this stage, most writers
are focusing on selling SOMETHING!
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mary rosenblum
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But what if that story is
really strong and later on, you have built a name and lots of antholgies
want to publish it...
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mary rosenblum
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but oops! YOu sold all rights
for 50.00.
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mary rosenblum
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YOU can't republish it.
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mary rosenblum
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Too bad.
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mary rosenblum
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Many of my stories have been
published in two, three, four, or more places.
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mary rosenblum
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I got paid for all of 'em,
only had to write the story once. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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But it's hard to look ahead
when all you can think about is selling NOW.
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tolkienlvr
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Mary, for mags that say on the
website they ONLY buy ALL RIGHTS is it possible/ok to tell them you only
want to sell 1st rights, etc? Or not ok?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure, tolkien.
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mary rosenblum
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They probably won't want to
pay you as much, but some small press/ezines are doing 'all rights' to make
things simple for themselves...that way they cover e-rights, and print
rights.
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mary rosenblum
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I would never sell 'all
rights' to a story.
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mary rosenblum
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For a nf piece...would depend
on the situation...essentially that's work for hire.
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mary rosenblum
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You are selling your
copyright.
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bengalrose
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LOL. If your name really IS
Stephen King, I'd suggest using a psudonym ;-)
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mary rosenblum
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Why? :-)
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mary rosenblum
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If you're not THE Stephen
King, it would still make a publisher very happy...although they'd probably
insist you use a middle initial. LOL
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tolkienlvr
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at what point do you tell them
that...from the first submission of it, or after accepted...
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mary rosenblum
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Normally, I'd say change it on
the contract. But if it's a small press or ezine and they don't give you a
contract, but merely publish and send you a check, that will be a headache.
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mary rosenblum
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You'll have to contact them
and negotiate rights and payment AFTER it's published.
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mary rosenblum
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THere are some BAD contracts
out there.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about rejection slips today. If you're new here, remember that you
need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to
the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question
icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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The one thing that I really
want to lean on today...
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mary rosenblum
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is that you need to keep
submitting your work to a particular magazine or ezine even if you are
getting regular rejections.
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gskearney
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Shouldn't you say what you're
offering in your cover letter. I know as an editor I'd get really annoyed
at someone who tried to change the rules after I accepted an MS. --gk
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mary rosenblum
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If the rights that you are
offering differ substantially from those listed in the guidelines, you
should specify what you are offering.
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mary rosenblum
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Normally you do not offer
rights in your cover letter...that is not professional, you already know
what they are buying and you agree or not, even if you tweak the contract
late.r
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...if you are not willing
to sell all rights and still want to submit, you should probably say so.
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mary rosenblum
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Realize, that will probably
get you rejected unless the editor REALLY REALLY wants that piece.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a bit of a catch 22.
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mary rosenblum
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Myself, I simply wouldn't
submit to someone who wanted to acquire all rights.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a tough catch 22 when
you're starting out.
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mary rosenblum
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You want the sale, but giving
away your copyright is a bad idea.
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mary rosenblum
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You'll have to decide how to
play it...do you want this sale enough to throw away a piece you can never
use again?
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mary rosenblum
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If not, tell the editor you'd
love to sell to her, but you really can only sell first World Rights and
first E rights ( or whatever is appropriate to the mag) and hope for the
best.
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mary rosenblum
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But also realize, that if this
is a very small mag or ezine, a sale there really isn't likely to help your
career much.
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mary rosenblum
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Editors DO know which are the
really good markets and they don't treat all clips equally. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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So if you pass on an 'all
rights' sale, you're probably not hurting your career at all.
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mary rosenblum
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That is also why I always tell
students to start submitting at the top of the market list, not the bottom.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, you may very well be
rejected by Good Housekeeping as an unpublished newbie...but what if they
buy it?
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mary rosenblum
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If you had started at the
bottom...
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mary rosenblum
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If your piece is appropriate
for the top market...go for it.
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mary rosenblum
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Work your way down.
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mary rosenblum
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You'll probably break in at a
lower level and begin selling to bigger and bigger mags, but don't throw
away the chance that you might sell to the top.
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mary rosenblum
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A LR
student...unpublished....sold to Newsweek.
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mary rosenblum
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And DO keep sending work even
when you get rejections.
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mary rosenblum
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THat is one of the biggest
mistakes novices make.
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mary rosenblum
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They get two or three
rejections from an editor and go elsewhere.
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mary rosenblum
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Thinking that editor doesn't
like their stuff.
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mary rosenblum
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But editors DO watch new
writers.
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mary rosenblum
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They want to see if you keep
improving and if you are prolific.
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mary rosenblum
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If they're going to
essentially 'give' you space in that magazine, they want more stories from
you when you are a name...
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mary rosenblum
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and the NF editors want
someone they can rely on for regular contributions.
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shaeya
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Why do they say you can resubmit
after 6 month
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mary rosenblum
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I've only seen that on a
couple of guidelines, shaeya...I think Women's World says that.
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mary rosenblum
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The implies that they really
don't keep up with their slush...
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mary rosenblum
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that a lot of stuff simply
doesn't get looked at.
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mary rosenblum
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Or they don't respond.
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mary rosenblum
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Women's World's guidelines
imply that they are sloppy about reading/responding to slush...but they
probably get their mail delivered by dumptruck.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm not excusing it, they
clearly need more staff, but that's probably the reason for it.
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gskearney
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Unfortunately, I'm kind of
amateur-lific. --gk
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mary rosenblum
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YOU just need to get your work
OUT Gary!
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shaeya
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Do you submit one every six
months or resubmit same story?
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mary rosenblum
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If they say 'resubmit' they
mean the story you have already submitted.
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mary rosenblum
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You can submit as often as you
like, but do NOT send the editor mutliple stories in one envelope!
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mary rosenblum
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Nothing makes editors roll
their eyes like the massive package of six or ten stories!
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mary rosenblum
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Space 'em out! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I know some prolific short
short writers...pros...that often have three or four stories in the same
slush pile...
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mary rosenblum
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but I've also heard the
editors comment that they'll pull 'em all and read 'em together. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Then the editor is likely to
buy the one he/she likes best and reject the rest.
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mary rosenblum
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But if she bought story One,
and then gets story TWo and likes it even better, she can't unbuy story
One. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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So she has now bought both
stories.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're
talking about rejection slips today. If you're new here, remember that you
need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to
the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question
icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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And here's really really good
tip for you....
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mary rosenblum
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it is MUCH harder to reject
someone you have met personally than a faceless stranger.
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mary rosenblum
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So if you can get to a
conference go chat with editors you plan to submit to!
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margieh
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I thought the "rule"
was one manuscript at a time for one editor. Are there exceptions?
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mary rosenblum
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It's not a rule. As I said, I
know pros who are prolific who have several in the pile at a time.
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mary rosenblum
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It's better for you if you
stick to one ms at a time...you're more likely to sell all than you are...
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mary rosenblum
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if the editor can compare them
and choose the favorite.
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mary rosenblum
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Keep a log.
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mary rosenblum
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Write down the date, title,
where you sent it...and when you hear back...
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mary rosenblum
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write down that date, and what
you got...form, note, or acceptance.
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mary rosenblum
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Keep track of your postage if
you're filing as a writer with the IRS.
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mary rosenblum
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That way, you'll know that
this mag routinely replies in four months...
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mary rosenblum
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that one in six months...that
one in six weeks...
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mary rosenblum
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and if the mag that always
replies in six weeks has a piece for three months...
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mary rosenblum
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then maybe you should query or
maybe the editor is about to buy it.
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mary rosenblum
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I discovered, for example,
that Gardner Dozois at Asimov's rejected in about six weeks and accepted in
about four months...
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mary rosenblum
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so if I got past the six week
mark, I could hope! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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The main thing to remember is
that rejections are NOT absolute judgements on the quality of your work.
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mary rosenblum
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The editor simply does not
want to use this story or this article right now.
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mary rosenblum
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Think of offering your stories
the same as offering fruit at the farmers market.
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mary rosenblum
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If you're selling apples and
someone doesn't want apples this week...
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mary rosenblum
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does it mean your apples are
bad?
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mary rosenblum
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Or does it mean they have a
fridge full of apples, or a tree, or they hate apples, or they had apples
last week and they want grapse this week.
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mary rosenblum
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It's the same thing.
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mary rosenblum
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There are MANY reasons why
this piece won't work.
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mary rosenblum
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Maybe this editor doesn't
think this piece is quite good enough for this mag...
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mary rosenblum
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but remember, too, that every
time you write something new you get a bit stronger as a writer.
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mary rosenblum
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Every time you revise, you get
a bit stronger as a writer.
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mary rosenblum
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Every time you critique you
get a bit stronger as a writer...
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mary rosenblum
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so even if this editor thinks
you're not quite up to his/her standard of quality for this story...
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mary rosenblum
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the next story or the story
after, the next article pitch or the one after, or the one after that...
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mary rosenblum
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might really knock that
editor's socks off.
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mary rosenblum
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Editors EXPECT you to get
better! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And they all want to discover
the next King or Pullitzer winner, don't worry.
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gskearney
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Do editors wear socks?? I
thought they lived under bridges and ate authors for breakfast. --gk
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mary rosenblum
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Nah, that's reviewers, Gary.
LOL
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
Oregon hour. :-)
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margieh
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"Reviewers," would be
an interesting discussion, Mary
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mary rosenblum
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We could do that. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Not a lot you can really do
about 'em except to remember that if you get a bad review, NO pr is bad!
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speck
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Hmmmm....got no socks on...I did
move out of the bridge. But don't like authors for breakfast...I prefer
them for late night snack.
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mary rosenblum
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There you go...from the
horse's mouth...or should I say troll's?
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks for coming, all.
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mary rosenblum
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Join us here tomorrow for our
casual chat...no topic, just hanging out and talking writing.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm going to go crawl back
into my novel now....
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post the transcript in
the usual place:
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mary rosenblum
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Writing Craft Forum
Transcripts.
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speck
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Got that first chapter rivised
yet?
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mary rosenblum
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Oh yeah...already in Two.
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks for coming all!
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mary rosenblum
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See you on the website.
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