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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all and welcome!
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're
new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or
the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen,
or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question
to reach me
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mary rosenblum
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A little warning here...I'm
going to have to be tough and cut this Forum off at the hour this Tuesday
instead of going for our usual 'Oregon hour'.
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mary rosenblum
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Apparently my mom is sick and
I need to go over there as soon as I'm done here.
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mary rosenblum
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So I'll work at keeping us on
task here. And we'll come back to this topic again.
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mary rosenblum
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It's one that bears repeating!
:-)
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mary rosenblum
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'show, don't tell' takes many
many forms in both fiction and nonfiction.
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mbvoelker
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Very sorry to hear that. My
prayers and best wishes to you and to her.
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks, MB. It's not a crisis,
but her phone is out of order, which complicates things.
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lilithangel
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I find it very difficult to show
vs. tell with 1000 word ->
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mary rosenblum
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Lilith, no wonder. It IS very
difficult to show in 1000 words.
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mary rosenblum
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You really have to put some
work into it.
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mary rosenblum
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And realize that there are
many ways of 'showing', and some of them are as efficient as telling.
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lilithangel
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She smiled = easierthan her lips
turned up
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mary rosenblum
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But 'she smiled' is showing,
lilith.
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mary rosenblum
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It's not telling. It's just
not a very specific term for moving those lips.
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red
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new to this chat--is it a single
theme?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, red. This is one of our
Forums, where we talk about a particular topic.
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mary rosenblum
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We're talking about 'showing
the character' rather than telling about that characater today.
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mary rosenblum
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Usually the chats here are
open and casual, but this one's bit more formal. ;-)_ More or less
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mary rosenblum
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Telling is: Janice was happy.
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mary rosenblum
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Showing is: Janice did a
little dance across the kitchen floor.
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mary rosenblum
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Yeah, it takes more words, but
we get an instant image from those words. Not so with...she was happy'.
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mary rosenblum
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But if words matter...you're
doing that 1000 word short short...
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mary rosenblum
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try this: "You're
happy," Sally accused.
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mary rosenblum
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Sally tells us that Janice is
happy.
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mary rosenblum
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And that 'accused' also lets
us guess what Sally's feeling about that is.
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mary rosenblum
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Two things at once, and this
is 'showing'.
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roe
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Janice danced across the kitchen
floor.
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mary rosenblum
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Yep.
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t green
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Papers rustled underfoot with
her first step into the room. Her next step took her to the overflowing
desk... is this "showing" the reader the messy room?
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mary rosenblum
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This is, but you can do it in
an even shorter way: She waded through the papers and found the phone book
under the stack of newspapes.
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mary rosenblum
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You're not showing us every
step...might be a long trip! ...
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mary rosenblum
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but 'wading', 'papers' and
'stack of newspapers' are seeds...
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mary rosenblum
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they grow into the picture of
a messy office instantly in our heads.
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mary rosenblum
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Think of a crystal. One tiny
seed crystal, and you grow a huge structure.
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mary rosenblum
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That is what showing does.
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mary rosenblum
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It does NOT mean showing us
every detail and movement in the scene.
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mary rosenblum
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Instead it means showing us a
few details that let the reader create an instant scene.
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lilithangel
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I guess I was getting too
Technical re: "showing" (Grin)
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mary rosenblum
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Most people do.
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mary rosenblum
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Show, don't tell can be a
remarkably hard thing to learn, lillith.
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mary rosenblum
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Scott Card spent a patient
afternoon trying to get it through my thick skull when I was a beginner.
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mary rosenblum
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I finally DID get it...but not
until later. :-)
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t green
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so you go from small to big in
terms of adjetives..??
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, t, unless you need to
keep those adjectives small.
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mary rosenblum
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There are times when we focus
on every little detail around us...in times of crisis, or stress, or when
injured and in shock.
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lilithangel
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Maybe like watching a movie -
whatdoyou see vs translatingit
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, lillith.
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mary rosenblum
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That is the difference. You
simply remove the 'narrator' from the picture.
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mary rosenblum
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For example. Annie walked into
the room. She was excited that her birthday was tomorrow.
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mary rosenblum
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Annie danced onto the
sunporch. Thirteen tomorrow! And a party!
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mary rosenblum
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That 'thirteen tomorrow' 'and
a party' are her thoughts.
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mary rosenblum
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We don't see a lot of
detail...but the reade will create his or her sunporch.
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mary rosenblum
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We can see more detail as we
need it.
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mary rosenblum
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But we know she's happy, yes?
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lilithangel
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You see her smile, you translate
she's happy...
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mary rosenblum
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exactly.
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mary rosenblum
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And the reason you do that
is...that is how we know she is happy in real life.
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mary rosenblum
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Nobody whisperes 'Annie was
happy...' in our ears.
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mary rosenblum
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The more you mimic reality,
the more real your scene is to the reader.
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twhorn
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Is there any way to know when to
use "showing" as compared to "Telling"?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, twhorn.
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mary rosenblum
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As a rule of thumb, showing is
the better choice. BUT...
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mary rosenblum
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in a transition or when you
want to cover a lot of time quickly, just tell.
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mary rosenblum
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After dinner, Tyler did his
homework, played Doom for an hour and finally took the dog out for a walk.
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mary rosenblum
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We will assume that we have
had a 'showing scene' at dinner...
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mary rosenblum
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and we'll need another
'showing sceen' while Tyler is walking the dog...maybe when he runs into a
werewolf. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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But if you showed us Tyler
doing his homework, playing Doom, and getting his jacket on we'd be
yawning.
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red
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He stood with hands pocketed and
eyes downcast. (4 grim?)
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mary rosenblum
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exactly, red!
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mary rosenblum
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Think about how you know
someone's mood if they don't tell you.
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mary rosenblum
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That body language works in
prose, too!
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lilithangel
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seems like the showing
equivalent of "Time Passes" :)
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mary rosenblum
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Yep.
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mary rosenblum
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Showing does slow down the
pace, so if the action is not important to the story, just tell us what
happened and get to the next important action. Show us that.
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tkat_2
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t would be better if TYler
transformed into a warewolf while walking the dog
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mary rosenblum
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Well, that's Tyler's story.
Don't know if he's a werewolf or his girlfriend is... :-)
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gerryd429
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on that thoughts/words
issue...what is the standard format?
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mary rosenblum
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Annie's thoughts were
paraphrased.
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mary rosenblum
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Although they were short and
fragmentary enough to seem like a driect thought.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember that we don't think
in long, grammatical sentences.
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mary rosenblum
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In fact, most of our actual
thoughts probably wouldn't make any sense to anyone else, taken out of
context.
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mary rosenblum
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But in any case, thought is
nowadays punctuated exactly like regular speech.
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mary rosenblum
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Some publishers will italicize
it, although I fight that in my own work.
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mary rosenblum
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Italic reads like a raised or
'different' voice.
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mary rosenblum
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If I have an editor who
insists on using italic for thought, I just don't use much thought in my
story...the bare minimum needed.
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mary rosenblum
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You simply make it clear from
context that it is a thought, and not a line of dialogue. And of course, there
are no quote marks.
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mousekey
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how does one show in first
person?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, there are two kinds of
first person, mouse.
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mary rosenblum
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There is the narrative first
person, where our POV is telling us about an event that happened in the
past.
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mary rosenblum
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I remember when I was that
age. Barney, the kid next door, always managed to catch a spider to throw
on me while I was in church.
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mary rosenblum
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Our POV is telling us about
her childhood.
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mary rosenblum
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Then there is direct first
person.
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mary rosenblum
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I look through the door. Coast
is clear, so I hotfoot it down the block.
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mary rosenblum
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Our POV is in effect talking
to himself as he lives the story.
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mary rosenblum
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In both cases, first person IS
telling...which is part of the reason I feel that third person overall is a
stronger voice for fiction.
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mary rosenblum
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But your 'telling' is your
character's voice, not yours.
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mary rosenblum
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The main thing in first person
is to rmember that your POV is not going to notice anything unless that
character would notice it in reality.
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mary rosenblum
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If our sneak thief POV runs
through a garden, he won't notice the Queen Elizabeth rose and the night
blooming jasmine...
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mary rosenblum
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unless he is also a gardening
fanatic.
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roe
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Is direct first person always
done in present tense?
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mary rosenblum
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No, it isn't, roe, but if I'm
using direct first I tend to use present tense.
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mary rosenblum
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Since I'm usually working on a
sense of drama and that present tense makes it more immediate.
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mary rosenblum
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Keeps the reader guessing
about the MC's survival. :-)
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twhorn
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I feel that showing give a sense
of being there better than just telling
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mary rosenblum
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It does for a very good
reason, twhorn.
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mary rosenblum
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What is more fun? Listening to
your sis tell you about her trip to Disneyland or a trip to Disneyland.
Duh.
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mary rosenblum
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Most of you have probably
gotten so 'lost' in a book that you forgot where you were or what time it
was.
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mary rosenblum
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That is because the scene
became real for you.
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mary rosenblum
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It is much easier to give the
reader that sense of 'being there' by showing the scene.
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tkat_2
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In both of the childrens and
adult courses we are asked to underline thought not italicize. I prefer
italicizing myself.
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mary rosenblum
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tkat, you are asked to
underline because italic is a 'no no' in ms format.
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mary rosenblum
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It's a left over from teh
typewriter days, but typesetters do not recognize italic .
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mary rosenblum
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The editor would have to
notate on the ms that the italic print was to be set in italic...how's that
for redundant?
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mary rosenblum
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But typesetters are taught NOT
to think, just to do. And underline indicates italic to a typesetter.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. If you're
new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or
the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen,
or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question
to reach me
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tkat_2
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being able to say something with
fewer words and also show might help avoid the slush pile :)
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mary rosenblum
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Of the two, tkat, showing is
more likely to sell your ms than fewer words.
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mary rosenblum
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Short alone is not a virtue.
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mary rosenblum
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Short and strong together are
a virtue.
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mary rosenblum
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Often it takes more words to
show the scene than just to say, 'they went into the house'.
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mary rosenblum
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They tiptoed up the sagging
steps and peered through the gaping door.
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mary rosenblum
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Visuals and mood.
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mary rosenblum
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Again...there are times when
'they went into the house' is better...
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mary rosenblum
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if it is merely a link between
two strong scenes.
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mary rosenblum
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But if entering that hunted
house IS a strong scene, then showing us is better.
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t green
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scene isn't too bad, but how do
you do it with character?
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mary rosenblum
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You show us the person, t
green, so that we guess what he or she is thinking and feeling.
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mbvoelker
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I think that this is a good
place to put studying people to use. Some people show happy by jumping and
dancing. Others sort of freeze -- as if happiness was almost too much to
bear.
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mary rosenblum
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Exactly, mb.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember that your reader is
capable of filling in a lot of blanks and if you give that reader the right
seeds...
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mary rosenblum
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he or she will grow most of
the scene for you. You just need to give the right seeds.
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mary rosenblum
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And it is that 'sharing' that
makes...in my opinion...prose stronger always than visual media.
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mary rosenblum
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You have no control over what
you see on the movie screen.
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mary rosenblum
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But your version of my world
is different in may wasy from my version.
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mary rosenblum
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So it is as much yours as
mine. That sense of 'my world, too', is, I think, a critical one.
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mary rosenblum
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By giving us glimpses of the
characters facial expression and body language as he or she acts and
talks...
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mary rosenblum
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you are adding a 'sound track'
of thought and mood to the action/dialogue.
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mary rosenblum
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And a character's perspective
and thoughts reveal his/her character.
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mary rosenblum
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The old man stared across the
park. The brats were out again, swarming all over, leaving their trash
behind. Locusts. He spat into the trampled grass. Worse than locusts. Rats.
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mary rosenblum
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We sure know how the old guy
feels about kids.
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mary rosenblum
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The old man stared across the
park at the children climbing and swinging in the playground. Joy turned
into energy. He smiled and whistled to Rover.
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mary rosenblum
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We know how this old man feels
about kids.
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mary rosenblum
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You can do this without the
thoughts, too.
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mary rosenblum
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The old man stumped along the
path past the playstructure. He stopped, glared, then spat deliberately on
the dusty ground.
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mary rosenblum
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The old man strolled past the
playstructure, smiling, pausing to watch.
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mary rosenblum
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Again, I don't have to TELL
you anything about his attitude toward kids.
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mary rosenblum
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The hard part, when you are
starting out, is recognizing your own narrative filter.
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mary rosenblum
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Ofetn we just throw in that
extra narrative comment when it isn't needed.
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mary rosenblum
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Janice walked into the room
and looked around happily. Thirteen tomorrow!
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mary rosenblum
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That 'looked around happily'
is me telling you that she is happy.
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mary rosenblum
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Danced into the room does the
same thing without my voice.
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mary rosenblum
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That's why you find an
admonition about using adverbs too often in many how to write books.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't tell us 'happily', or
'sadly', or 'quickly'. .. Show us.
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mary rosenblum
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ran quickly is raced, dashed,
leaped, charged...and we'll learn even more from your choice here.
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mary rosenblum
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But again, nothing is ALWAYS
or NEVER in writing.
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mary rosenblum
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Sometimes a quick 'she went to
the doctor' is a whole lot more effective than an entire page of details
about car, parking garage, waiting room, prescription and so forth.
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mary rosenblum
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Put yourself into your
character's head and look through that person's eyes.
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mary rosenblum
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Okay, what do you see and know
AS THAT CHARACTER.
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mary rosenblum
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That is showing.
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mary rosenblum
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If Janice is happy...how do
you the character know? That dancing step, right?
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deb1234
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Can you show us an example when
lys are acceptable?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, deb, say we have an
intense scene in the castle. Our POV has just had a fight with his father,
the king, and means to leave on a forbidden journey.
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mary rosenblum
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But all the details of getting
his gear together and getting underway are boring.
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mary rosenblum
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So we say... He stormed out of
the throne room and gathered his gear quickly. Saddling his bay gelding
himself he lashed his pack behind the saddle and galloped through the gate,
past the astonished guards.
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mary rosenblum
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We're paraphrasing the details
of his departure that would have taken at least a page or more to show.
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mary rosenblum
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Now we're not going to keep on
telling like this.
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mary rosenblum
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We might drop back into
showing with : He pushed his horse to the limit, until the beast was
stumbling with exhustion. Finally he stopped for the night beside a tiny
spring. Tethering his drooping mount to a slender sapling, he spread his
cloak on the ...
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mary rosenblum
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springy moss and threw himself
down on it without even a fire.
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mary rosenblum
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Now, notice that we are
beginning to describe more and more details and we're back to showing his
actions as they happen.
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mary rosenblum
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Too often, novice writers keep
right on with the paraphrasing all the way through.
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speckledorf
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I think a lot of the time the
trouble with "ly" words is they are used reduntantly...whispered
quietly or yelled loudly for example...
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mary rosenblum
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No kidding, speck.
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mary rosenblum
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And often they are the 'lazy
way out' -- instead of coming up with a vivid verb.
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mary rosenblum
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Said loudly might be
announced, yelled, shouted, proclaimed...
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mary rosenblum
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and each of these words
carries specific nuances.
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mary rosenblum
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As far as characterization
goes, the more you let us guess what your character is thinking and feeling
by his or her actions and reactions to events...
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mary rosenblum
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the more you show us that
character.
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mary rosenblum
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Margie punched two slices of
bread into the toaster, slammed open the cupboard and yanked out the
cornflakes box.
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mary rosenblum
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It slipped from her hand,
bounced once on the corner of the counter and spilled a golden wave of
cereal across the dirty linoleum. "Roger! " She kicked her way
through the cereal. "Get down here now!"
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ptomainebrain
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I'm in the middle of Oryx and
Crake, my first exposure to Atwood. In the beginning it seemed almost
directionless (it wasn't, I realize now), but in the middle it has reached
the can't-put-down stage. I feel like I'm really in a post-apocalyptic
world from the way the MC Snowman describes it through his eyes. The key
point being the way the MC sees it, not Atwood. How she got it from an idea
in her her mind to almost physical reality in mine is the show-don't-tell
trick I need to pick up on when I go back and analyze it.
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mary rosenblum
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That's filtering, pto.
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mary rosenblum
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Everything you see is colored,
tinted, by Snowman's perceptions, he world view, his beliefs and past.
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mary rosenblum
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That is why it is so important
to create three dimensional characters.
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mary rosenblum
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That iceberg's worth of
personality will filter your scene and show it to the reader through his
eyes.
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mary rosenblum
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And you do that in both third
and first person.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, I do need to wrap up
here.
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mary rosenblum
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We'll come back to this again,
because show don't tell is woven into every aspect of writing...
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mary rosenblum
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characterization, dialogue,
pacing...everything.
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mary rosenblum
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But I do need to take off now.
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mary rosenblum
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Drop into tomorrow's casual
chat at this time, same place, and i'll happily answer questions about
this.
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks for all your good
wishes, folks.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll go post this transcript
and skedaddle.
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mary rosenblum
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See you tomorrow!
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