| mary rosenblum | Hello all
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| mary rosenblum | Hi! This is our Friday forum on Saturday with me, your web editor, Mary Rosenblum. I've published 3 SF novels, 4 Mysteries, and more than 50 short stories in multiple genres, as well as nonfiction. I'm here to answer any questions you have about writing, editors, submitting, agents, or whatever.
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| mary rosenblum | Hello again, folks!\
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| mary rosenblum | The cyber gremlins are hungry today. I'd better feed them chocolate!
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| mary rosenblum | Hi! This is our regular Friday forum on Saturday with me, your web editor, Mary Rosenblum. I've published 3 SF novels, 4 Mysteries, and more than 50 short stories in multiple genres, as well as nonfiction. I'm here to answer any questions you have about writing, editors, submitting, agents, or whatever.
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| speckledorf | It is the out of town gremlins who evacuated from Ivan...they be nasty critters!
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| mary rosenblum | no doubt, speck. I just crashed my entire system!
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| mary rosenblum | Whew!\
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| mary rosenblum | So if I dissappear...I'll be back in a bit!
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| mary rosenblum | This particular Forum is coming to you from not-foggy San Francisco, by the way.
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| mary rosenblum | At least it's not raining down here! That stopped when we crossed the OR border last night. BIG surprise.
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| mary rosenblum | I wanted to talk about endings today, because I've had a lot of questions from folk...
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| mary rosenblum | and I get a lot of novice manuscripts with endings that don't work.
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| mary rosenblum | And next to your start, your ending is critical to the success of your story, whether it's a novel or a short story.
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
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| mary rosenblum | A good ending really needs to bring this story to closure.
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| mary rosenblum | Readers tend to feel very frustrated when the reach the last page of the story only to find a handful of dangling loose ends and a blank page.
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| mary rosenblum | Most editors I know will read the start of a story, skim a bit of the middle, and then read the end.
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| mary rosenblum | When you turn in a synopsis for a novel, it is critical to include the ending.
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| mary rosenblum | You are not trying to entice the editor to read the book, you are demonstrating to the editor that you can indeed bring this story in for a solid landing.
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| info | Do you tell how it ends or just enough to make them wonder?
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| mary rosenblum | You ALWAYS tell the editor how your story ends, info.
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| mary rosenblum | Your editor is not about to ask you to submit the ms just so he/she can find out if you know how to end it!
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| mary rosenblum | If you catch that editor on a cranky afternoon, you'll get a rejection for not including that ending...
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| mary rosenblum | and even if the editor is in a good mood, you will only receive an invitation to send the ms if the editor is absolutely sure of what your ending is going to be...
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| mary rosenblum | so always tell that editor how it ends. Remember...
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| mary rosenblum | that your editor is not a book buyer in the book store. Your synopsis is not meant to entice her to take a chance...
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| mary rosenblum | but rather to impress her that you CAN write a solid story
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| ashoak | If it's a short story, they just read it themselves, right?
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| mary rosenblum | Right, ashoak.
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| mary rosenblum | Very rarely are you asked for a synopsis of a short story.
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| mary rosenblum | The story sells itself...BUT it needs a strong ending.
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| patchworkcat | If you were writing a series, would you tie up the main conflict at the end of the first one but leave a couple of the subplots dangling so you could continue them in the next book?
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| mary rosenblum | yes, patch, and even if you don't intend a sequel, a realistic ending is of course going to have story that continues beyond the end of the book.
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| mary rosenblum | 'They lived happily ever after' really doesn't work very well any more!
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| mary rosenblum | However, you DO need to bring your central conflict to a solid resolution, as well as any major subplots.
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| mary rosenblum | And all too often, novice writers leave that conflict unresolved...
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| mary rosenblum | saying, 'but I want readers to buy book two'.
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| mary rosenblum | What you need to realize is that readers WILL buy book two if they really enjoyed book one...
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| mary rosenblum | but it will be one to two years before book two appears, so asking your readers to wait that long can really hurt you.
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| mary rosenblum | There is a professional writer who shall remain nameless, who won a major award for a book and intended a sequel to tie up major plot points...
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| mary rosenblum | but life intervened and about four years passed before the book appeared on the shelves.
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| mary rosenblum | The publisher put out a huge number of books because of the first book's popularity, but four years later, readers had forgotten how excited they had been and didn't buy the sequel...and a lot were annoyed at the open ending.
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| mary rosenblum | So the book lost money in a big way and really damaged that writer's career.
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| mary rosenblum | It would have been better in this case if she had ended the first book solidly.
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| mary rosenblum | And it IS a good idea to leave the reader with a sense that these characters and this world have a future.
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| mary rosenblum | Publishers are often eager to publish a sequel if the first book sells well, and in certain genres, especially fantasy, they actually prefer series to single books.
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
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| tkat_2 | It looks like I won't be making the trip to the parallel universe I was so concerned about. I had to cut my story at least 10,000 words because I misread the word count for lesson six in Breaking into Print. Not a problem because the ending is easier now.
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| mary rosenblum | I bet it is easier with 10,000 words gone!
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| mary rosenblum | That must have been a long story, tkat.
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| deb1234 | Once your problem is resolved, how much further should you carry your story?
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| mary rosenblum | Not very long, deb. Once your central conflict is resolved, it is a good idea to get out quickly.
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| mary rosenblum | If you have a lot of subplots to tie up, you are going to have to generate some new dramatic peaks in order to keep the reader interested.
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| mary rosenblum | It is not a good idea to resolve your central conflict and then spend 50 - 60 pages simply tying up loose ends.
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| ashoak | In a long novel, are there smaller "endings" before the end?
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| mary rosenblum | Well, not 'ending's...there is only one end...but I know what you mean, I think.
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| mary rosenblum | There are multiple dramatic peaks and consequent valleys in even a short novel.
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| mary rosenblum | Ideally, every chapter has its own dramatic arc.
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| mary rosenblum | Each chapter should rise to a peak of tension...even if it is a small peak...and end at a lower level of conflict that leads into the next chapter...
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| mary rosenblum | where the dramatic tension can again rise to a peak and drop.
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| patchworkcat | Doesn't the resolution of the main conflict sometimes bring about the resolution of the subplots?
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| mary rosenblum | Often, patch, but not always. It simply depends on your subplots and how closely tied they are to the main plot.
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| mary rosenblum | In a short story, you are not likely to have more than two plot lines -- the internal and external plot -- and they are usually resolved at the climax.
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| mary rosenblum | In a longer short story -- novelette or novella -- you might have a subplot or two and there you need to resolve them quickly if they are not resolved before the main climax.
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| mary rosenblum | But novels are complex. You may have several subplots going...many subplots even.
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| mary rosenblum | Not all will be directly resolved at the climax, and this bears some consideration as you are plotting this novel.
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| mary rosenblum | You really don't want to spend those sixty pages tying up loose ends.
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| mary rosenblum | You may have to revise a couple in order to resolve them BEFORE the climax.
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
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| ashoak | Do some genres have particular requirements for endings?
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| mary rosenblum | Yes, some do, and there are some considerations in general, ashoak.
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| mary rosenblum | If you're writing for the Romance market, you really are going to need a 'happily ever after' end. Romance does not do downbeat endings much if ever.
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| mary rosenblum | While you can use a downbeat ending, it will make your work more difficult to sell, even if you are writing horror or dark fantasy.
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| mary rosenblum | There IS an entertainment value to be considered, and readers in general are not fond of downbeat endings where the character they care about fails.
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| mary rosenblum | You can do it, but it is simply harder to sell.
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| deb1234 | What are some indications that a shorter story would make a good novella or longer?
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| mary rosenblum | The complexity of the world and the issues facing the characters can lead to a novel, deb.
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| mary rosenblum | If you have a rich and complex background for your story, if you can see larger issues that these characters will face, either as a direct..
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| mary rosenblum | result of this plot-event or later, then that short story may serve as a powerful springboard into a novel.
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| mary rosenblum | That is how I have begun my four SF novels...with the worlds and characters I generated in short stories.
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| mary rosenblum | But a short story plot will not make a novel....unless your short story is simply the plot summary for a novel and then you're not likely to sell it.
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| tkat_2 | Regarding those extra 10,000 words, my instructor suggested a second story or possibly a third. It's not a bad thing. I won't know how to move around in that other universe until I read up on it. As for the ending, my main character's life is hanging by a thread.
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| mary rosenblum | Hmmm, tkat. I haven't read your story, but if your readers love your MC, I'm not sure they're going to be very happy with you if you leave that person hanging!
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| mary rosenblum | Readers really do like to know that their beloved MC has succeeded/survived/is safe...at least for now.
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| mary rosenblum | While you can imply threats in the future, it is a good idea to leave that person standing on the curb, so to speak, rather than out in traffic! Even if we know he'll dart out into that traffic the minute we close the magazine.
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| mary rosenblum | Remember that a reader wants to be satisfied NOW, not a year from now.
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| mary rosenblum | And it will be at the VERY minimum a month before that reader will be satisfied, even if you sell part two to the editor with part one, and the editor publishes it in the next issue.
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| mary rosenblum | Editors are very sensitive to readers feelings...they're the ones who get the hate mail if they annoy 'em!
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| mary rosenblum | Do remember that what you read is not always what will sell for YOU.
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| mary rosenblum | There are novel series....especially in fantasy...that are 'slice of sausage' series.
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| mary rosenblum | Lord of the Rings is one. If you read Book Two first, you will have a hard time understanding what is going on.
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| mary rosenblum | The three books don't stand alone at all.
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| mary rosenblum | BUT...just because this has been done and sells powerfully does not mean YOU will be able to make it work as well.
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| mary rosenblum | You can, but it will make it more difficult to sell your novel
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
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| ashoak | I'm never sure in a story if I'm leaving too much unspoken.
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| mary rosenblum | That's a fine line to walk, ashoak.
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| mary rosenblum | It is always a good thing to let the readers figure things out for themselves.
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| mary rosenblum | But on the other hand, you don't want readers to be confused.
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| mary rosenblum | This is where readers are vital.
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| mary rosenblum | It is easy to tell too much, so that the reader, spoon fed, is bored.
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| mary rosenblum | It is just as easy to tell too little so that readers are left groping for clues.
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| mary rosenblum | Even when you've had much more experience at achieving this delicate balance, it is still a good idea to run your work by at least one good reader.
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| mary rosenblum | This is our After Hours Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me!
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| mary rosenblum | It's always a good idea to run your ending past a reader.
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| mary rosenblum | What you want to look for in an ending is a dramatic closure...
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| mary rosenblum | the main character succeds, the problem is at least for now, resolved.
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| mary rosenblum | Your loose ends, subplots are tied up.
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| mary rosenblum | You can end with a sort of 'epilogue' if you need to step into the future to tie up those loose ends.
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| mary rosenblum | It is not at all uncommon to end the dramatic climax scene and then hop ahead to the future...
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| mary rosenblum | to show the central characters later, how they are doing, what has changed.
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| mary rosenblum | That sort of skip into the future can save you plodding through a lot of 'and then, and then, and then...'
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| mary rosenblum | Basically, you don't want to drag the ending out. If you must continue for a full chapter beyond your climax scene, try to include a bit of a dramatic peak in that final section so that you don't end the book with a flat affect.
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| mary rosenblum | I think I'm going to end the session a bit early, unless you all have some questions about ends? Here's you're chance! :-)
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| mary rosenblum | Remember, too, that ends derive directly from the beginning of your story.
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| mary rosenblum | So if your end doesn't seem to work, but you LIKE that end, the problem may lie in your begining...you may need a different start.
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| mary rosenblum | Well, we'll be back to our regular schedule on Tuesday for our Tuesday Forum...
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| mary rosenblum | I'll miss the Sunday open chat...I'll be on the road home...but I'll see you all on Monday!
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| mary rosenblum | Have a good weekend!
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| mary rosenblum | I'll post this with the transcripts in Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts
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| mary rosenblum | Have a good weekend.
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| mary rosenblum | Bye!
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