| mary rosenblum | Hi! This is our regular Friday forum with me, your web editor, Mary Rosenblum. I've published 3 SF novels, 4 Mysteries, and more than 50 short stories in multiple genres, as well as nonfiction. I'm here to answer any questions you have about writing, editors, submitting, agents, or whatever.
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| mary rosenblum | Hello, all, I'm coming to you live from Boston and the World SF conference.
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| mary rosenblum | It is turning into a very productive weekend, and I hope your week has gone very well! Feels STRANGE to be doing the Forum at this hour! It's DARK
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| patchworkcat | Welcome to the Eastern Time Zone, Mary!
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| mary rosenblum | Nice time zone to visit...wouldn't want to live here!
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| mary rosenblum | But it DOES help at late publisher's parties...midnight is only 9 PM MY time! LOL
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| janp | Wait until morning when the sun will wake you EARLY
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| mary rosenblum | Oh, it HAS been, Jan. Alas, 8 AM out here is only 5 AM my time!
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| mary rosenblum | Oh well...
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| mary rosenblum | I wanted to talk about clips tonight...
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| mary rosenblum | since they drive most new NF writers nuts.
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| mary rosenblum | Hi, galatyne, by the way. He's actually here at the convention, too. :-)
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| peanut | Hi Mary. I want to send a query to National Geographic Kids for a middle grade article I wrote. They want clips that show my style of writing for kids. My problem is that I only have clips in personal essays on a moms website. What do I send them?
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| mary rosenblum | Always, with clip or writing sample guidelines, you have to ask yourself what the edtior needs from you.
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| mary rosenblum | We tend to view these things as 'tests' and expect an A or C or F .
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| mary rosenblum | They are a request for information to save the editor time.
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| mary rosenblum | CAN you write this article in a manner I can use?
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| mary rosenblum | Since your essay has been published, by all means include a direct link or a copy of that...a brief one...
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| mary rosenblum | But I would certainly include a writing sample that demonstrates the voice you'll use in the Geographic article.
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| mary rosenblum | The editor doesn't care if you can write for adults. She wants to know if you can write for HER readers...kids.
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| sailor | Most NF articles I write require at least one picture. For a clip, should I just send the text or is it better to try and copy the actual magazine page?
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| mary rosenblum | I'd just xerox the page, sailor. There is a subtle power in the xerox;. The editor is seeing the published page.
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| mary rosenblum | Hi! This is our regular Friday forum with me, your web editor, Mary Rosenblum. I've published 3 SF novels, 4 Mysteries, and more than 50 short stories in multiple genres, as well as nonfiction. I'm here to answer any questions you have about writing, editors, submitting, agents, or whatever.
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| dbamarsha | Especially those of us who don't have any... yet.
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| mary rosenblum | Hey, I had a monthly column for a couple of years and have published quite a bit of NF off and on but you know what?
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| mary rosenblum | For the queries I"m sending out now for dog training articles, I effectively have no good clips.
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| mary rosenblum | The editors don't care that I can write fiction...so I'm simply sending out writing samples. More to the point.
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| patchworkcat | What if you've never had anything published?
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| mary rosenblum | Then you do the writing sample, patch..AND...
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| mary rosenblum | if what you have had published is not like what you are querying about...such as a for-children piece when all your published nf has been adult...
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| mary rosenblum | then by all means list your publications and include a writing sample that demonstrates your ability.
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| mary rosenblum | Remember...this is not a test to see if you can jump through a hoop.
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| mary rosenblum | It is a way for the editor to determine if you can write what she needs.
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| patchworkcat | What type of writing sample? Can you give an example or clarify in some way?
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| dbamarsha | What kind of a writing sample are they looking for? A full article or story?
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| mary rosenblum | It should be something similar to what you are proposing, patch and marsha.
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| mary rosenblum | For example, for my dog queries...I sent the editor the first section (slightly less than a page in lengthy)..
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| mary rosenblum | of a handout I give to my puppy class people.
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| mary rosenblum | It is similar to the article on puppy training I am proposing.
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| mary rosenblum | I could have sent that editor a copy of one of my old Countryside columns, but they're very different.
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| mary rosenblum | This shows her what I mean to do.
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| peanut | If we want to send in a writing sample, is it ok to send in part of the article we are querying about or does it have to be aa different article?
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| mary rosenblum | If you don't have something finished, and are going to have to create something for the sample, I don't see any reason not write a section of the proposed article.
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| mary rosenblum | Remember that editors don't expect you to have a finished version lying around.
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| mary rosenblum | Generally, the writer writes the article AFTER the editor answers the query with an affirmative!
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| patchworkcat | So why not just send the article or at least the first couple of paragraphs?
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| mary rosenblum | Your editor needs more than two paragraphs to get a sense of your ability, and does not want to clutter her desk with stacks of pages.
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| mary rosenblum | I'd say 500 words is plenty.
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| mary rosenblum | You are better off if you can offer something that is complete in 500 words.
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| mary rosenblum | That shows her you can create a solid piece that closes well.\
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| mary rosenblum | I didn't do that, but I can offer a LOT of publishing credits, even if they're not in dog magazines. Editor is gonna guess that I can actually write.
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| roe | sort of doesn't make sense why would editor take the time to read the clips and then ask for article when she could just get the article and read that
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| mary rosenblum | Time, roe. And she doesn't think you have the article yet.
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| mary rosenblum | They mostly reject on your IDEA
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| mary rosenblum | Only if they like your idea will they consider the sample.
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| mary rosenblum | Why clutter the office with hundreds of pages of unsolicited ms when all you're going to read is the query letter nineteen times out of twenty or better?
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| rosedianekeaper | what about publishing with ebooks is that a bad idea
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| mary rosenblum | Not particularly, rose. Epublishing is gaining respect all the time.
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| mary rosenblum | I'd certainly try traditional publishing first, but if you don't succeed there, try Epublishing.
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| patchworkcat | So we end up writing two articles to get paid for one?
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| mary rosenblum | ONly at first, patch. Once I sell the first dog article, I'll use that one in any query I send to any dog/pet/training magazine from then on.
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| mary rosenblum | If I send a query to Writers Digest, I won't send any writing sample, just my fiction clips.
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| mary rosenblum | Here's where your LR assignments can be VERY useful!
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| deb1234 | What if your clipping is two pages long? Would you still send more than one?
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| mary rosenblum | Well, two pages double spaced is only 500 words. Two pages singles paced is 1000. That's a lot. I doubt your editor will read that far, so youi're probably better off sending something very short and strong.
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| shayon-joseph | Hi Mary, I've written a couple articles for my company newsletter; we have over 1000 employees conducting business in 17 states; can I list those articles as "published" pieces, when writing a query and listing my publishing credits?
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| mary rosenblum | Certainly. They have to be reasonably strong writing or your boss would fire you and hire someone else to do the job!
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| rosedianekeaper | I did get an interested publisher only to find they were bad
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| mary rosenblum | Well, you have to be cautious in the Epublishing and small press markets.
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| laurel8704 | what if all you have in published clip is 2000 words?
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| mary rosenblum | It doesn't really matter what length your published clip is, laurel.
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| mary rosenblum | If the publisher is a reasonably well known magazine, the editor figuires you know how to write if you sold there.
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| mary rosenblum | He/she may scan the first part of the piece just to see if your 'voice' suits.
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| mary rosenblum | The writing sample is a sort of 'entrance exam' . If you are published, you took this exam with another editor already!
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| mary rosenblum | Hi! This is our regular Friday forum with me, your web editor, Mary Rosenblum. I've published 3 SF novels, 4 Mysteries, and more than 50 short stories in multiple genres, as well as nonfiction. I'm here to answer any questions you have about writing, editors, submitting, agents, or whatever.
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| peanut | So if I do have an article ready because I had orignally planned it for a magazine that wants the article and not a query, but it was rejected by the magazine, can we just send the whole article as a sample to a magazine that states that a query is required?
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| mary rosenblum | Depends on the length, peanut, and whether you think it's a strong example of your work.
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| mary rosenblum | If it's not too long and you think it's excellent, then yes, do it.
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| mary rosenblum | IF you have no clips.
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| helen h | Does topic matter if intended audience is the same? For Ex. two different types of collectibles. How about size? If you have one article that is 750 words and the publications usually preferrs 1500?
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| mary rosenblum | Topic doesn't matter...
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| mary rosenblum | remember...ask yourself what the editor wants.
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| mary rosenblum | What the editor needs to know is does your voice suit THIS audience?
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| mary rosenblum | If they are academics and your article is written for seven year olds...uh, see the problem?
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| mary rosenblum | But if the magazine is read by seven year olds and your sample would interest seven year olds, you're fine.
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| mary rosenblum | If you're writing for adults, then a piece on ANY topic, or even a personal narrative is fine.
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| mary rosenblum | But fiction is not a great writing sample, for example, if you have no nonfiction clips.
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| mary rosenblum | Because many fiction writers can't put a good nonfiction article together to save their lives!
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| mary rosenblum | The hard part to remember is that the editor is NOT administering a multiple choice test, but is asking you for information...
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| mary rosenblum | but alas, it is not done in a very personal manner, so it's easy to misinterpret!
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| mary rosenblum | The question they are asking is; Can you write for my audience?
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| mary rosenblum | If you say 'sure, look, I"ve published three articles for school teachers, single moms, dog owners, or what have you, then fine. They're happy.
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| mary rosenblum | If you can't show that published proof, then show them by demonstration!
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| helen h | interesting comment regardiing ficioin/non-fiction. they are defintely different birds. does the same thing go in reverse? non-fiction not writing fiction
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| mary rosenblum | Oh yes.
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| mary rosenblum | You can certainly tell a fiction editor that you have published nonfiction...
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| mary rosenblum | but lots of well published nonfiction writers can't write fiction for beans.
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| mary rosenblum | BUT....it should get you into the 'semi pro' pile...
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| mary rosenblum | and out of the garden variety slush pile.
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| mary rosenblum | Stories are SO individual that editors need to read them.
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| mary rosenblum | When you sell NF you are selling a TOPIC and a SLANT
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| mary rosenblum | That is what the editor buys or rejects...
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| mary rosenblum | the writing sample/clip just tells the editor whether or not you are capable of presenting that topic/slant in a publishable form.
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| mary rosenblum | Those 'writing sample' requests, when you have no clips, can seem VERY intimidating.
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| mary rosenblum | They are an 'out loud' assertion that you have not yet been published.
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| mary rosenblum | But don't let them scare you.
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| mary rosenblum | Remember, you are selling the TOPIC you proposed and the SLANT you gave it.
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| mary rosenblum | the writing sample is ONLY proof that you are capapble of putting sentences together coherently!
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| mary rosenblum | THAT is the big difference between fiction and nonfiction.
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| shayon-joseph | Mary, for my LR assignment #3, when my instructor returned it, she asked that I add "side bars". Please explain exactly how sidebars are added to a written article?
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| mary rosenblum | Sidebars are wonderful little 'add ons' that usually net you a few extra bucks for no extra work, Shayon.
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| mary rosenblum | Use them whenever possible!
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| mary rosenblum | They are the 'boxes' you see on the page with an article...offering some specific information pertinent to the main article.
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| mary rosenblum | For example, in a full page spread about touring historic Boston...
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| mary rosenblum | the sidebar, boxed in the center of a page of text, might include a list of local tour guides, or a list of various historic sites iwth contact info -- a phone number or website url.
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| mary rosenblum | It is easy to read or clip for the reader, instead of being scattered through the piece.
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| mary rosenblum | And you will usually get extra pay for doing it.
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| mary rosenblum | You submit it on a separate sheet, headed: Sidebar for Teaparty Yesteryear article by Joanna Author...
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| mary rosenblum | so that if the sidebar gets separated from the main article it can be reunited.
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| mary rosenblum | It's on a separate page and NOT boxed inside the article...\
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| mary rosenblum | because the editor will place it on the page during layout;.
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| helen h | Once you've got a clipping or two or a writing sample, what is the etiquette for sending it to an editor? hardcopy / link to your own website / link to publisher's website if they put it online
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| mary rosenblum | Depends on the publisher, helen.
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| mary rosenblum | If I"m sending to a print mag...which I am right now: Dog Fancy...
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| mary rosenblum | I'll include the clip as hardcopy because they don't mention esubmissions at all, and I don't know if they have easy access...
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| mary rosenblum | or if the editor is web-saavy even.
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| mary rosenblum | If I'm submitting an article to SciFiction Magaazine...an online mag...
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| mary rosenblum | I will probably include a direct link to any site or document I want to include as a clip.
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| mary rosenblum | I figure the editor can click on it. BUT...\
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| mary rosenblum | taht is only if my query is via email.
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| mary rosenblum | For heaven's sake don't include a link on a snail mailed page!
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| mary rosenblum | Yes, you can include the url, but don't expect the editor to go type it in. Might happen. Not REAL l ikely. Copy the page if you can.
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| mary rosenblum | Print that out and send it in.
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| mary rosenblum | Hi! This is our regular Friday forum with me, your web editor, Mary Rosenblum. I've published 3 SF novels, 4 Mysteries, and more than 50 short stories in multiple genres, as well as nonfiction. I'm here to answer any questions you have about writing, editors, submitting, agents, or whatever.
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| sailor | Do we just include the clip with the query, or should the query letter state "Attached is a clip from the June issue of Magazine X"?
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| mary rosenblum | Sailor, I'm laughing. You need to visit a few mailrooms!
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| mary rosenblum | N ever assume that everything will arrive together on the proper desk!
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| mary rosenblum | ALWAYS mention the contents of your submission!
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| mary rosenblum | "I'm sending you clips from my last three articles in 'Wooden Boat' magazine.,'
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| mary rosenblum | And at the bottom of the letter type enc: to mean 'enclosure' and then list the enclosures
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| mary rosenblum | letter
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| mary rosenblum | clips from Wooden Boat
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| mary rosenblum | writing sample
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| mary rosenblum | sidebar
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| mary rosenblum | photos
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| mary rosenblum | what have you....
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| mary rosenblum | People ARE careful, I don't mean to imply they'll fling your stuff around at a magazine...\
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| mary rosenblum | but accidents DO happen, things get mislaid, people get distracted.
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| mary rosenblum | ALWAYS make sure you name is on your ms and not just in your cover letter when you send an article i n.
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| mary rosenblum | Editors have had pieces they wanted to buy but the cover letter was lost and there was no identification on the ms.
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| mary rosenblum | I know of at least TWO cases where this happened and the author never queried about the ms.
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| mary rosenblum | Oh well.
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| sailor | So if we copy a published page as a clip, we should handwrite identifying information on the top.
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| mary rosenblum | Yes, unless the page header identifies the mag and then I personally would highlight it.
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| mary rosenblum | Make it easy for the editor to spot it. \
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| mary rosenblum | I'd mention it in the query letter, too, by NAME.
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| mary rosenblum | I'm enclosing two articles from Wooden Boat Magazine...
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| mary rosenblum | The reason is this.
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| mary rosenblum | Remember what those clips are doing for the editor?
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| mary rosenblum | They demonstrate that you have passed another editor's 'writing test'.
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| mary rosenblum | Now WoodenBoat is a top end publication.
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| mary rosenblum | If you have sold twice to WB, your editor KNOWS you can write a solid article and I doubt she'll do more than give them a cursory glance.
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| mary rosenblum | Don't make her read them because she doensn't know who published it!
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| mary rosenblum | REmember this...we forget it WAY too often as novices.\
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| mary rosenblum | The editor wants to publish you.
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| mary rosenblum | He /she NEEDS new, good writers.
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| mary rosenblum | All YOU need to do is to show that you can produce stuff she/he can use.
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| mary rosenblum | And you're in.
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| mary rosenblum | And 'good' and 'bad' are much more clearly cut than in fiction!
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| mary rosenblum | So it is MUCH MUCH easier to break i nto nonfiction than fiction.
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| mary rosenblum | We are so used to the image of the English Teacher...\
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| mary rosenblum | that it's hard to see that Editors are operating on different principals.
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| mary rosenblum | Not handing out grades but buying a commodity.
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| mary rosenblum | If someone wants to buy potatoes and you offer watermelon, what do you think the response will be, hmmm/
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| mary rosenblum | The real trick to breaking into nonfiction is to learn how to tell whether an editor wants potatoes, honeydew melon, or lamb chops and then offer the right commodity!
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| mary rosenblum | Right now, there are only a handful of my LR students that couldn't publish something in the nonfiction market right now.
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| mary rosenblum | And it's a SMALL handful!
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| mary rosenblum | That's why you really need to work at getting over the 'intimidation' of that clip/writing sample thing.
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| mary rosenblum | The editor is saying; Can you write well enough to deliver what you propose here?
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| mary rosenblum | A clip from a reputable magazine says yes.
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| mary rosenblum | A page or two of well crafted prose says yes.
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| mary rosenblum | So if you know that you plan on writing say, articles for working mothers...\
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| mary rosenblum | write a couple of short ones and polish them to use as clips.
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| mary rosenblum | When I query for articles on writing, I'll use one of the articles I"ve posted on the website as a clip...because it will show the editor I can write effectively on the topic of writing craft.
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| mary rosenblum | My puppy class handout will be a writing sample for dog mags, not the published LR article.
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| mary rosenblum | It's more appropriate.
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| mary rosenblum | Give the editor something that answers that burning question...can you do this for me?
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| mary rosenblum | Oh yes...a good example of why to go to conferences...
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| mary rosenblum | I turned in a YA ;ms back in April...one that the editor had asked for. No answer, not even when my agent prodded...
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| mary rosenblum | It was beginning to really make me wonder, this silence.
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| mary rosenblum | So today, I found myself signing books with two other authors who have published with her...asked them.
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| mary rosenblum | They translated for me. ;-) 'Oh, she's a squeaky wheel editor. Just email her. Bug her. She's fine with that!'.
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| mary rosenblum | It's not something I would ordinarily do with an editor I hadn't worked with before...
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| mary rosenblum | This is why one spends money to go to these things.
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| mary rosenblum | You can ask around if you need information!
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| roe | hehe cool hope you did
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| mary rosenblum | Oh, I will. They also translater her latest communication...her boss, the head of the Viking imprint...now has the book and is even SLOWER than Sharyn.
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| mary rosenblum | But it does allow me to a: put the silence into perspective and b; follow a course of action I wouldn't have done.
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| mary rosenblum | These conferences are where you CAN ask questions about all things p ublishing and find answers...
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| mary rosenblum | whether you are new or a pro.
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| helen h | any conferences you recommend in New York City or Philadelphia?
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| mary rosenblum | Check shawguides, helen. You need to go to a conference in your preferred genre.
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| helen h | back on clippings topic.If no clippings are required, is it still appropriate to at least put a link in the query letter as part of the "this is why I've done"? or just forget clippings.
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| mary rosenblum | If you have published ALWAYS mention it.
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| mary rosenblum | Not mentioning your publishing history...until you KNOW the editor knows who you are...implies that you have no published work.
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| helen h | tried shawguides, there wasn't anything local except asja. had hoped you might have something else.
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| mary rosenblum | What genre, Helen?
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| info | If you queried with an editor 6 months ago and didn't hear
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| info | back, should a person inquire or look elsewhere?
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| mary rosenblum | Alas,some editors do not reply to queries, info, and sometimes that is the editor's way of telling a novice that the query was not up to expectations.
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| mary rosenblum | Generally, if you don't hear back in four weeks or less, it's a 'no' and just log is as a 'no thanks' in your log or data base.
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| helen h | desired conference genres - science fiction / adventure / any non-fiction except journalism
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| mary rosenblum | For SF conferences, watch sfwa.org for schedules.
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| sailor | A friend of mine attaches a page to her queries listing her publishing history. She writes novels. Is that whole page overkill for a magazine query or is it a good way to impress the editor?
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| mary rosenblum | More likely to evoke an eyeroll than awe, sailor.
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| mary rosenblum | For a nonfiction query, I'll say that I"v e published more than 60 short stories and seven novels with Random House and Putnam.
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| mary rosenblum | That tells editor that I've published with major New York houses but Nonfic editors dont' care about titles...
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| mary rosenblum | they DO care if you won the Pulitzer or were on the NYTimes best seller list!
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| mary rosenblum | Well, this has been a fun Oregon hour, even if it DID take place in Baaaston.
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| mary rosenblum | I won't be doing our daytime forum on Tuesday this week because I'll be on an airplane!
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| mary rosenblum | But I WILL do it Wednesday morning, same time as the Tuesday Forum.
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| mary rosenblum | I'll send out extra reminders to let people know.
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| mary rosenblum | Topic requests anyone?
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| helen h | thanks mary. after two non-fiction books and over 300 articles I'm starting over after 10 years as a writer. breaking into new fields is intimidating.
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| mary rosenblum | Ten years is not that long, helen!
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| janp | Don't forget a visit to the Union Oyster House before you go west...Best schrod in Baaston :-)
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| mary rosenblum | I'll look for it. Haven't been in Boston since 89. I can't BELIEVE how it has changed. Whew! I even lived here for two years.
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| patchworkcat | Have fun in Bean Town, Mary. Thanks for being here tonight. This has been very informative!
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| mary rosenblum | Thanks! See you all on Wednesday...maybe Sunday.
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| mary rosenblum | Depends on my schedule, but I'll try to make it!
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| mary rosenblum | i'll post this to the usual place...Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.
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| roe | how about something on ideas and where to get them
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| helen h | what is your preferred method to get topics outside of a forum?
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| mary rosenblum | That's a good one, roe. Helen, email me at maryrsn@comcast.net
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| mary rosenblum | bye all!
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| mary rosenblum | Have a great weekend!
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