Forum Transcripts

The Series Character 7/7/06

Event start time:

Fri Jul 07 19:08:13 2006

Event end time:

Fri Jul 07 20:32:33 2006



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello all!

mary rosenblum

Hard to believe that the Fourth has come and gone. I hope you all enjoyed it...and the fireworks.

mary rosenblum

Well, those of you south of the Am/Can border at least. :-)

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about the series character tonight. I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

mary rosenblum

I apologize for being a bit tardy here. I've been working on the new novel and I should set a timer! But I love it when I get so deep into a chapter that I lose track of time.

mary rosenblum

Glad I came up for air in a timely fashion. :-)

mary rosenblum

I wanted to talk about series characters tonight.

mary rosenblum

Some people are taking the novel course and others are simply working on novels on their own...

mary rosenblum

but some genres do like series.

mary rosenblum

Mystery and fantasy are the two main 'series' markets.

mary rosenblum

And it's really not a particularly good career move to write a 'slice of sausage' series...

mary rosenblum

you MUST read all three books to find out how the story ends.

mary rosenblum

In the mystery universe, series can go on and on with the same character, and it becomes a challenge to keep that character fresh.

tory

Seems to be a lot of series in Christian fiction-mostly romance along with mystery/action

mary rosenblum

Oh, thanks, Tory. I don't know the Christian fiction market well. I know the Left Behind series is very popular.

mary rosenblum

Several issues arise.

spider

When writing a series, how do you know when it is a good time to end that book, and what suggestions do you have for keeping the characters interesting in the next book?

mary rosenblum

Ideally, spider, you have a plot...a conflict that the MC needs to resolve...that comes to a climax and resolves in that single book.

mary rosenblum

If your readers enjoy that character, they'll read the next book don't worry, even if you completely resolve the conflict of book one in book one.

mary rosenblum

It is NOT a good idea to write a huge story whose central conflict is only resolved in book three or four or what have you.

beirdd

I just read a book by a well-known author that frustrated me seriously on the last two pages. They had the villain in their hands... but at the end we don't know if they actually caught him or he got away.

mary rosenblum

Testamony to the fact that 'open ends' annoy readers, beirdd!

mary rosenblum

Don't DO that. It really does annoy readers!

mary rosenblum

Mostly, authors do that in the mistaken notion that readers won't buy book two unless you leave part of the story unresolved.

mary rosenblum

But believe me, if you write a good story, your readers will be back!

mary rosenblum

However, it is a good idea, if you think your first book might end up as book one of a series...

mary rosenblum

of if you plan to do that in the first place...

mary rosenblum

to spend some time with that main character or two or three...

mary rosenblum

the one or ones who will appear as central characters in all your books in the series.

mary rosenblum

Give them some internal conflicts and issues that can help power future books.

speckledorf

The "open end" is why I quit reading the Left Behind books about 3 books ago. It ended with the "you have to buy the next book to find out what happens thing and I refused.

mary rosenblum

And there you go...it's like the soap operas that end on a cliff hanger so you have to 'tune in tomorrow'.

tory

Is it OK to have a secondary issue unresolved that leads into the conflict in book 2?

mary rosenblum

Sure. That's a great way to lead into book two.

mary rosenblum

In book one, our MC might be searching for her lost brother while she unravels the main plot.

mary rosenblum

And at the end of book one, she has a strong clue as to where Brother is, but she doesn't have time to pursue it.

mary rosenblum

And you can bring that into Book Two, perhaps as the lead.

spider

So it's good to have an overarching plot with several subplots that can be resolved in each seperate book? And a slow revelation of new tendencies in our MC?

mary rosenblum

It is, spider.

mary rosenblum

If you look at long running mystery series, the most successful have a larger, overarching character plot...the character gains and/or loses girlfriends...

mary rosenblum

has trouble with close friends, might see one friend die, gets married, divorced, changes jobs, even gets older.

mary rosenblum

So the character is always changing a bit and the readers want to find out what happened with that failing marriage, the new boyfriend, the old friend who's dying of cancer.

mary rosenblum

And against this backdrop of 'larger story', the conflict and resolution of this book take place.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about the series character tonight. I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

writermom

in a series can you gradually change mc's by killing off the first mc's and moving secondary characters into the mc spot and can you leave a subplot not completely wound up as a lead in into the next book

mary rosenblum

You see that quite a bit in fantasy series, writer.

mary rosenblum

Some of the fantasy series include several main characters and they take turns on 'center stage', and in other books, play a more supporting role.

mary rosenblum

Never be afraid to throw a monkey wrench into your MC's life in book two or three or what have you.

mary rosenblum

Has he been happily married? What if his wife dies, leaves, is killed? How will he cope with his life now?

mary rosenblum

That MC might find a lost relative...perhaps one she/he didn't know existed.

mary rosenblum

That MC might get tired of his/her job and leavefor a new one.

mary rosenblum

In something like fantasy you can often build in change. Your MC might be a wandering sorcerer or a mercenary soldier who is always on the move.

mary rosenblum

In mystery, that amateur sleuth might have a job that constantly takes her new places.

writermom

can you introduce that character that nobody knows at the end of the book or do you have to have some suggestion of them earlier in the book

mary rosenblum

It is not a really good idea to introduce a brand new character right at the end of the book, writer, if that person is involved in the conflict/resolution of this story.

mary rosenblum

BUT...you can introduce that character from out of 'nowhere' if that character is going to be a major player in Book Two.

mary rosenblum

As the plot winds up, a stranger might ride into town and it turns out he has some connection to our MC in this story...

mary rosenblum

and the suggestion is that a new story will start with the two of them.

megger

I'm reading a novel which is the same mystery told by 4 different MCs. It works well in one novel, but would that a technique like that be as effective in a series?

mary rosenblum

It's a cool concept, but I've only seen it done in short work, megger. Part of the problem is...

mary rosenblum

that the power lies in the comparison of those differing viewpoints. But not all readers will be able to get their hands on all four books in short order.

mary rosenblum

So that comparison might be lost.

spider

How do you know when to kill off a MC? How would that affect a series?

mary rosenblum

Taht's a toughie, spider.

mary rosenblum

Believe me, readers will send you HATE mail if you kill off a character they love.

mary rosenblum

But it may be the way to breathe life in a series that is faltering.

mary rosenblum

You have to weigh the options and the outcomes of doing it or not.

mary rosenblum

It'll depend entirely on the series and what you are doing.

mary rosenblum

For example, we might have a series with a charismatic old professor who solves a lot of mysteries...

mary rosenblum

and you develop a young violin virtuoso who becomes his sidekick.

mary rosenblum

And eventually, you find yourself kind of running out of new stuff for the old guy to do...

mary rosenblum

but the young sidekick is involved with a very different world and has fresh opportunities to meet and deal with...

mary rosenblum

interesting characters. It might be time for the professor to have a heart attack or get cancer.

mary rosenblum

YOu might have a 'transition' book as the sidekick handles an investigation under the tutelage of the...

mary rosenblum

bedridden and ill professor. And in the next book, readers find the sidekick grieving but handling cases on his own.

mary rosenblum

The key here is that your readers need to care about the sidekick as much as they do the professor.

mary rosenblum

They'll gripe about the change, but since they like the sidekick, too, they won't desert you in droves.

mary rosenblum

Realize that you create readers who think of your characters as real people. When you kill them off...

mary rosenblum

you can arouse a wasp's nest of reaction.

drakeluvr

OT question: How would you write a midevil murder that happens in the first chapter? My MC finds his mom. I want him to find out in the next few chapters, but not right away.

mary rosenblum

You mean he finds his mother murdered, drake?

mary rosenblum

Well, that's pretty typical of murder mysteries, drake. The murder often... not always...happens in chapter one or two.

mary rosenblum

But the identity of the murderer is rarely reveiled until the final chapters.

drakeluvr

He finds out it is his father who he has been sent to live with

mary rosenblum

Wow, dark family murder that!

mary rosenblum

Well, you do it the way you do any mystery drake.

mary rosenblum

Son is going to try and find the killer. He will investigate clues, follow leads, and find 'red herrings' that suggest...

mary rosenblum

that someone else did the deed...and finally put the clues together and realize who the real murderer is...hopefully before the reader does. :-)

mary rosenblum

That's how to write a mystery 101.

drakeluvr

MC arrives late and mother dies in his arms. He doesn't find the murderer's identity until a few chapters later

mary rosenblum

I wouldn't let him find out until the final couple of chapters, drake.

mary rosenblum

Unless part of the story is what he does about it, and that's the real conflict/resolution.

drakeluvr

What I mean is, I can use poison, or midevil weapons. I thought of a poisoned dagger, but wanted the design a bit unusual, but can't figure out what it would look like, so I am stuck. This is for homework due the 31st. I sent in a request

mary rosenblum

I'd go read some books on medieval life. They should suggest something to you.

mary rosenblum

Read Ivanhoe.

mary rosenblum

Good medieval details, a nice plot, and a host of interesting characters.

mary rosenblum

It might stimulate some thoughts.

sardis

why can't I type in the type here section?

mary rosenblum

You mean the regular send bar, sardis?

mary rosenblum

Because I"m up here on the stage and it won't come to me...I won't see it.

mary rosenblum

And your question won't end up in the transcript.

mary rosenblum

Only the questions/answers that get posted through the stage end up in the transcript. A lot of people who can't...

mary rosenblum

make the Forums read the transcripts after.

mary rosenblum

I'm sure you'll get your extension, Drake.

spider

Is it okay in the last book of a series to finish with the MC's victory, but still leave a possibility of escape for the antagonist? Even if it's slim?

mary rosenblum

Sure. As long as the MC resolves the conflict, the antagonist can escape to trouble him/her another day. Happens all the time.

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about the series character tonight. I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

spider

Drake, try The Writer's Complete Fantasy Reference

mary rosenblum

Thanks,

mary rosenblum

thanks, Spider.

drakeluvr

Well, the murder mystery is only a subplot to the story - with the other aspects of the story, it is more of a self discovery/romance book

mary rosenblum

Well, then you can resolve the murder anywhere you want. Your central conflict...the most important one..shouldn't be resolved until very near the end of the book...

mary rosenblum

but strong subplots like the murder can resolve wherever you think they should be resolved.

geezer

Kuntz has a father that is a killler. The mystery turns into a thriller after the killer is revealed.

mary rosenblum

Oh yeah, it's not a brand new thing, but it works just fine. :-)

mary rosenblum

If you're going to use the same main character in more than one book, try to discover (ie invent) new things about your character for every book.

mary rosenblum

Another trick that I found quite useful in my mystery series is to bring in a new strong secondary character in every book...

mary rosenblum

that readers could explore.

mary rosenblum

Once you have developed your MC thoroughly in book one, you have a balancing act.

mary rosenblum

Your 'loyal' readers know this character. The readers who just picked up Book Three and haven't read your series don't know this character.

mary rosenblum

So you have to make this character real for the new readers but not bore your faithful readers.

mary rosenblum

YOu really need to craft your first couple of chapters so that events reveal your series MC to those new readers...]

mary rosenblum

but the action of the events keeps your faithful readers engrossed, so that they're not tapping their toes...

mary rosenblum

waiting for you to get done going over that characterization AGAIN when they already know this person.

mary rosenblum

And if you feature a strong secondary character in each book, all the readers can enjoy getting to know this character as the plot unfolds.

mary rosenblum

Character development is one of the strong driving forces in a good book.

mary rosenblum

If your character is well developed after book one, you'll be depending on plot alone for strength...

mary rosenblum

unless you bring in a new 'strong character' to develop.

geezer

I doubt whether you've dealt with this Q before. My reader thinks I should consider a sequel to a novel I'm working on that has a Biblical base. I think it's a good idea except I would have to use the actual Biblical names for the next generation

mary rosenblum

Nothing wrong with using the Biblical names, geeze. Lots of historical fiction has been written about King David, King Saul, and a huge host of other Biblical characters.

mary rosenblum

Don't contradict events recorded in the Bible and you're fine.

geezer

They are really "bad" I don't think I could live with them. Any suggestions?

mary rosenblum

Try writing with other characters as the MCs geezer and letting us see the 'bad ones' through their eyes. Would that work?

mary rosenblum

This is our After Hours Forum, with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about the series character tonight. I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..

writermom

would this be a good time to reveal a new fact about the mc that wasn't obvious in the first book

mary rosenblum

Yes, it is, writer. :-) But remember...

mary rosenblum

we have trusted you to develope this real person for us. If you introduce a fact that your MC hasn't even thought about for one second in Book One...

mary rosenblum

readers may doubt it. If I"m adopted, I will probably think about that fact sometime during my participation in a book length episode.

mary rosenblum

So suddenly introducing something like that in Book Two will simply make readers doubt your ability.

geezer

I don't mean bad as people, but their names are impossible

mary rosenblum

Oh. :-) Just create a 'shortcut' for the name.

mary rosenblum

Use your autotext feature.

mary rosenblum

Like the name Alfrazcheralone could become alf in your autotext file.

mary rosenblum

when you type alf...the entire name will pop onto the screen.

megger

A series doesn't always mean the same MC does it? I was thinking about a certain type of MC or is that called something else?

mary rosenblum

Well, most series do include the same main characters.

mary rosenblum

You CAN have a series of say, cat mysteries, with different characters but they all include cats.

mary rosenblum

That's not going to be viewed as a 'series' by the publishing world, though.

info

What if the MC didn't know he/she was adopted? Would you still have to mention it in book one or would that be an acceptible way to introduce that little tidbit?

mary rosenblum

Oh, if the MC didn't know, that's fine.

mary rosenblum

An old auntie could reveal it in book two and you're fine. :-)

mary rosenblum

AND...if you are doing the books in first person, you can hide it.

mary rosenblum

That first person narrator can lie to use. :-)

mary rosenblum

Readers just get made when you do third person, where we assume we're getting to eavesdrop on the characters' thoughts, and then spring that kind of surprise on us.

snooky

what is the least number of words that constitute a novel?

mary rosenblum

Depends on who is doing the definition, snooky.

mary rosenblum

I think SFWA defines it as 40,000 words or more

mary rosenblum

Publishers will generally tell you what length they're looking for.

mary rosenblum

For adult fiction, it is usually 70,000-100,000 words.

mary rosenblum

Some category romance lines want shorter lengths.

mary rosenblum

And YA tends to run to 40,000-50,000 words.

mary rosenblum

These are all quite general length estimates.

charie'

Three books is a trilogy. How many books for a series?

mary rosenblum

More than two, generally, charie.

mary rosenblum

Although some series end up with two books because the series got dropped by the publisher.

mary rosenblum

So it might be titled: Blue Diamond Death, Book One of the Gemstone Series...

mary rosenblum

but we never see book three.,

snooky

Thanks, Mary. I was just curious.

mary rosenblum

Well, that novella/novel line is a bit blurry. :-) But usually, for adult fiction, figure on 70,000 words at least.

mary rosenblum

Do see if you can bring in a new strong character in subsequent books in a series.

mary rosenblum

That character need not become a permanent fixture in the series, but that spotlight will give you a new character for your readers to explore.

info

Sort of off topic a little here but, how much description do you put into it? Ex: If your MC is in the ocean on his yacht and everything is calm one minute but changes within two minutes, do you make the whole chapter describe how the MC becomes unconscious or would 1000 words or less work with a scene break to when he wakes up?

mary rosenblum

It depends on the importance of that storm to your story, info.

mary rosenblum

If the storm comes up and as the MC battles it, he discovers that someone has sabotaged the steering gear, then that entire chapter...

mary rosenblum

might be about his near death and the discovery that someone has tried to kill him.

mary rosenblum

But if his storm experience does not tie in directly to the main plot, then it's just kind of window dressing and probably doesn't need a whole chapter.

info

Only important to get MC from point A to point B

mary rosenblum

Well, remember that a good scene needs to do three things: Deepen characterization, advance plot, enrich setting.

mary rosenblum

If it's not doing at least two of those three, I'd just transition through it. It took George three days to make Bezilla Bay after a summer squall tore a hole in his foresail.

charie'

I've seen unsympathetic characters in book 1 become sympathetic in book 2, is this a good technique?

mary rosenblum

Sure! It's a GREAT thing to do and it's hard. But of course, most 'bad guys' are not pure evil...

mary rosenblum

but are rather a mix of evil and good, and the balance is all over the map. It's a triumph of characterization in my opinion...

mary rosenblum

if you can start with a character who seems 'bad' on the surface, but as we see that person's motivations and actions more closely, we realize he's not 'bad' at all...

mary rosenblum

there are reasons for his behavior.

mary rosenblum

Rose, by Martin Cruz Smith is one of those. The MC is essentially unlikeable when we meet him...

mary rosenblum

but by the end is sympathetic.

geezer

Off topic. On my parallel planet I have no problem calling animals by their earth name but all my readers do. There are alot of animals and it would slow the story to describe each one. Help!

mary rosenblum

In the SF universe, if it hops like a rabbit has ears like a rabbit and eats carrots (or the equivalent) it's a rabbit.

mary rosenblum

If it happens to be moss green, let someone mention that.

mary rosenblum

If your characters are not speaking English and you're translating in your story, then you're translating Xrylessa into Rabbit.

mary rosenblum

If it's a parallel universe, then I can't see why you should have problems using regular animal names.

mary rosenblum

Either everyone speaks English there, or as I said, you're translating all speech into English.

mary rosenblum

The main thing with series characters is to know them well enough that you can allow...

mary rosenblum

their lives to develop and change over the course of several books, complicate their lives with personal issues that aren't directly related to the plot of the book,...

mary rosenblum

and bring in strong new secondary characters.

mary rosenblum

Remember that you walk a line between introducing your MC to new readers even if this is Book Four, and not boring your loyal readers who know who this guy/gal is.

spider

For those who have not yet pubished a novel, is it easier to get a series published, or a stand alone novel?

mary rosenblum

Depends on two things: The quality of your book(s) and the genre.

mary rosenblum

Mystery and Fantasy LOVE series.

mary rosenblum

Other genres aren't so wild about 'em.

mary rosenblum

But in any case, if you want an editor to buy several books from you, with a couple that are not yet written, then your Book One and your series ideas need to be VERY strong.

charie'

Can't series also be linked through the setting? Where the stories revolve around different MCs reactions to the same grand event(s)?

mary rosenblum

That's not really a series in the traditional sense.

mary rosenblum

It would probably be called a series. Say you wrote three novels where MCs deal with 911 in their own way.

mary rosenblum

But it would probably be called a series by reviewers rather than the publisher.

charie'

For example: Dune or Gordon Dickson's Childe cycle?

mary rosenblum

Dune really is a series. So is the Pern series.

mary rosenblum

The MCs change over time, but it's a progressive timeline in the same universe...

mary rosenblum

You have series where the world is static, but the characters change over time...

mary rosenblum

although usually you'll find a connection from book to book in terms of characters.

writermom

do you set up that connection in the first book

mary rosenblum

I think that first book can create the connection.

mary rosenblum

I don't think Frank Herbert meant to write a series when he wrote Dune. Not from what I've heard.

mary rosenblum

But after it won as many awards as it did, he pursued it.

mary rosenblum

He had such a rich world in Dune that it was easy to continue the story through the offspring of the MC in Dune.

geezer

My LR teacher has a detective that deals with her work and then deals with a new marriage in the first book building a house and moving inthe 2nd. Each intros new characters and their stories

mary rosenblum

THere you go. That's a fine way to bring in new stuff.

mary rosenblum

Robert Parker kept his Spencer series alive (amateur sleuth) by letting Spencer's life evolve and change.

mary rosenblum

His love life with his longtime girlfriend had ups and downs, his best friend and he had ins and outs...things happened that weren't directly related to the plot of each book.

mary rosenblum

Well, this has been a fun Oregon hour.

mary rosenblum

Have a good summer weekend, all, and join us on Sunday for our regular open chat.

mary rosenblum

Same time as this one, but we talk about whatever.

charie'

Is it best to plot out all the books so that each has secondary characters that become MC in later books?

mary rosenblum

You don't have to do it that way, but the more you plot out the later books, the more you can weave in...

mary rosenblum

small subplots that provide an overarching plot.

mary rosenblum

Series are great. Readers get to know your characters and love your world and they're very loyal.

mary rosenblum

Have a great weekend, all!

mary rosenblum

See you on Sunday.

mary rosenblum

I'll post the transcripts in the usual place.

mary rosenblum

Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.

mary rosenblum

Have a great weekend, all!

 

Return to Forum Transcripts