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mary rosenblum
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Hello all!
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mary rosenblum
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Hard to believe that the
Fourth has come and gone. I hope you all enjoyed it...and the fireworks.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, those of you south of
the Am/Can border at least. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about the series
character tonight. I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in
November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any
questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on
the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question
mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into
the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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I apologize for being a bit
tardy here. I've been working on the new novel and I should set a timer! But
I love it when I get so deep into a chapter that I lose track of time.
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mary rosenblum
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Glad I came up for air in a
timely fashion. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about series
characters tonight.
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mary rosenblum
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Some people are taking the
novel course and others are simply working on novels on their own...
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mary rosenblum
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but some genres do like
series.
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mary rosenblum
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Mystery and fantasy are the
two main 'series' markets.
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mary rosenblum
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And it's really not a
particularly good career move to write a 'slice of sausage' series...
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mary rosenblum
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you MUST read all three books
to find out how the story ends.
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mary rosenblum
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In the mystery universe,
series can go on and on with the same character, and it becomes a challenge
to keep that character fresh.
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tory
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Seems to be a lot of series in
Christian fiction-mostly romance along with mystery/action
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, thanks, Tory. I don't know
the Christian fiction market well. I know the Left Behind series is very
popular.
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mary rosenblum
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Several issues arise.
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spider
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When writing a series, how do
you know when it is a good time to end that book, and what suggestions do
you have for keeping the characters interesting in the next book?
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mary rosenblum
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Ideally, spider, you have a
plot...a conflict that the MC needs to resolve...that comes to a climax and
resolves in that single book.
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mary rosenblum
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If your readers enjoy that
character, they'll read the next book don't worry, even if you completely
resolve the conflict of book one in book one.
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mary rosenblum
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It is NOT a good idea to write
a huge story whose central conflict is only resolved in book three or four
or what have you.
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beirdd
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I just read a book by a
well-known author that frustrated me seriously on the last two pages. They
had the villain in their hands... but at the end we don't know if they
actually caught him or he got away.
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mary rosenblum
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Testamony to the fact that
'open ends' annoy readers, beirdd!
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mary rosenblum
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Don't DO that. It really does
annoy readers!
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mary rosenblum
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Mostly, authors do that in the
mistaken notion that readers won't buy book two unless you leave part of
the story unresolved.
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mary rosenblum
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But believe me, if you write a
good story, your readers will be back!
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mary rosenblum
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However, it is a good idea, if
you think your first book might end up as book one of a series...
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mary rosenblum
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of if you plan to do that in
the first place...
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mary rosenblum
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to spend some time with that
main character or two or three...
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mary rosenblum
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the one or ones who will
appear as central characters in all your books in the series.
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mary rosenblum
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Give them some internal
conflicts and issues that can help power future books.
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speckledorf
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The "open end" is why
I quit reading the Left Behind books about 3 books ago. It ended with the
"you have to buy the next book to find out what happens thing and I
refused.
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mary rosenblum
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And there you go...it's like
the soap operas that end on a cliff hanger so you have to 'tune in
tomorrow'.
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tory
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Is it OK to have a secondary
issue unresolved that leads into the conflict in book 2?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure. That's a great way to
lead into book two.
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mary rosenblum
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In book one, our MC might be
searching for her lost brother while she unravels the main plot.
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mary rosenblum
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And at the end of book one,
she has a strong clue as to where Brother is, but she doesn't have time to
pursue it.
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mary rosenblum
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And you can bring that into
Book Two, perhaps as the lead.
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spider
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So it's good to have an
overarching plot with several subplots that can be resolved in each
seperate book? And a slow revelation of new tendencies in our MC?
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mary rosenblum
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It is, spider.
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mary rosenblum
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If you look at long running
mystery series, the most successful have a larger, overarching character
plot...the character gains and/or loses girlfriends...
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mary rosenblum
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has trouble with close
friends, might see one friend die, gets married, divorced, changes jobs,
even gets older.
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mary rosenblum
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So the character is always
changing a bit and the readers want to find out what happened with that
failing marriage, the new boyfriend, the old friend who's dying of cancer.
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mary rosenblum
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And against this backdrop of
'larger story', the conflict and resolution of this book take place.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about the series
character tonight. I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in
November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions
you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a
Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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writermom
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in a series can you gradually
change mc's by killing off the first mc's and moving secondary characters
into the mc spot and can you leave a subplot not completely wound up as a
lead in into the next book
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mary rosenblum
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You see that quite a bit in
fantasy series, writer.
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mary rosenblum
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Some of the fantasy series
include several main characters and they take turns on 'center stage', and
in other books, play a more supporting role.
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mary rosenblum
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Never be afraid to throw a
monkey wrench into your MC's life in book two or three or what have you.
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mary rosenblum
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Has he been happily married?
What if his wife dies, leaves, is killed? How will he cope with his life
now?
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mary rosenblum
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That MC might find a lost
relative...perhaps one she/he didn't know existed.
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mary rosenblum
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That MC might get tired of
his/her job and leavefor a new one.
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mary rosenblum
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In something like fantasy you
can often build in change. Your MC might be a wandering sorcerer or a
mercenary soldier who is always on the move.
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mary rosenblum
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In mystery, that amateur
sleuth might have a job that constantly takes her new places.
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writermom
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can you introduce that character
that nobody knows at the end of the book or do you have to have some
suggestion of them earlier in the book
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mary rosenblum
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It is not a really good idea
to introduce a brand new character right at the end of the book, writer, if
that person is involved in the conflict/resolution of this story.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...you can introduce that
character from out of 'nowhere' if that character is going to be a major
player in Book Two.
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mary rosenblum
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As the plot winds up, a
stranger might ride into town and it turns out he has some connection to
our MC in this story...
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mary rosenblum
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and the suggestion is that a
new story will start with the two of them.
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megger
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I'm reading a novel which is the
same mystery told by 4 different MCs. It works well in one novel, but would
that a technique like that be as effective in a series?
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mary rosenblum
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It's a cool concept, but I've
only seen it done in short work, megger. Part of the problem is...
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mary rosenblum
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that the power lies in the
comparison of those differing viewpoints. But not all readers will be able
to get their hands on all four books in short order.
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mary rosenblum
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So that comparison might be
lost.
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spider
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How do you know when to kill off
a MC? How would that affect a series?
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mary rosenblum
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Taht's a toughie, spider.
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mary rosenblum
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Believe me, readers will send
you HATE mail if you kill off a character they love.
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mary rosenblum
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But it may be the way to
breathe life in a series that is faltering.
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mary rosenblum
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You have to weigh the options
and the outcomes of doing it or not.
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mary rosenblum
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It'll depend entirely on the
series and what you are doing.
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mary rosenblum
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For example, we might have a
series with a charismatic old professor who solves a lot of mysteries...
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mary rosenblum
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and you develop a young violin
virtuoso who becomes his sidekick.
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mary rosenblum
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And eventually, you find
yourself kind of running out of new stuff for the old guy to do...
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mary rosenblum
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but the young sidekick is
involved with a very different world and has fresh opportunities to meet
and deal with...
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mary rosenblum
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interesting characters. It
might be time for the professor to have a heart attack or get cancer.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu might have a 'transition'
book as the sidekick handles an investigation under the tutelage of the...
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mary rosenblum
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bedridden and ill professor.
And in the next book, readers find the sidekick grieving but handling cases
on his own.
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mary rosenblum
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The key here is that your
readers need to care about the sidekick as much as they do the professor.
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mary rosenblum
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They'll gripe about the
change, but since they like the sidekick, too, they won't desert you in
droves.
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mary rosenblum
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Realize that you create
readers who think of your characters as real people. When you kill them
off...
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mary rosenblum
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you can arouse a wasp's nest
of reaction.
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drakeluvr
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OT question: How would you write
a midevil murder that happens in the first chapter? My MC finds his mom. I
want him to find out in the next few chapters, but not right away.
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mary rosenblum
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You mean he finds his mother
murdered, drake?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, that's pretty typical of
murder mysteries, drake. The murder often... not always...happens in
chapter one or two.
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mary rosenblum
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But the identity of the
murderer is rarely reveiled until the final chapters.
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drakeluvr
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He finds out it is his father
who he has been sent to live with
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mary rosenblum
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Wow, dark family murder that!
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mary rosenblum
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Well, you do it the way you do
any mystery drake.
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mary rosenblum
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Son is going to try and find
the killer. He will investigate clues, follow leads, and find 'red
herrings' that suggest...
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mary rosenblum
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that someone else did the
deed...and finally put the clues together and realize who the real murderer
is...hopefully before the reader does. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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That's how to write a mystery
101.
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drakeluvr
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MC arrives late and mother dies
in his arms. He doesn't find the murderer's identity until a few chapters
later
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mary rosenblum
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I wouldn't let him find out
until the final couple of chapters, drake.
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mary rosenblum
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Unless part of the story is
what he does about it, and that's the real conflict/resolution.
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drakeluvr
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What I mean is, I can use
poison, or midevil weapons. I thought of a poisoned dagger, but wanted the
design a bit unusual, but can't figure out what it would look like, so I am
stuck. This is for homework due the 31st. I sent in a request
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mary rosenblum
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I'd go read some books on
medieval life. They should suggest something to you.
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mary rosenblum
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Read Ivanhoe.
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mary rosenblum
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Good medieval details, a nice
plot, and a host of interesting characters.
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mary rosenblum
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It might stimulate some
thoughts.
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sardis
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why can't I type in the type
here section?
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mary rosenblum
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You mean the regular send bar,
sardis?
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mary rosenblum
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Because I"m up here on
the stage and it won't come to me...I won't see it.
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mary rosenblum
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And your question won't end up
in the transcript.
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mary rosenblum
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Only the questions/answers
that get posted through the stage end up in the transcript. A lot of people
who can't...
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mary rosenblum
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make the Forums read the
transcripts after.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm sure you'll get your
extension, Drake.
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spider
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Is it okay in the last book of a
series to finish with the MC's victory, but still leave a possibility of
escape for the antagonist? Even if it's slim?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure. As long as the MC
resolves the conflict, the antagonist can escape to trouble him/her another
day. Happens all the time.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about the series
character tonight. I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in
November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any
questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on
the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question
mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into
the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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spider
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Drake, try The Writer's Complete
Fantasy Reference
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks,
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mary rosenblum
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thanks, Spider.
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drakeluvr
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Well, the murder mystery is only
a subplot to the story - with the other aspects of the story, it is more of
a self discovery/romance book
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mary rosenblum
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Well, then you can resolve the
murder anywhere you want. Your central conflict...the most important
one..shouldn't be resolved until very near the end of the book...
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mary rosenblum
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but strong subplots like the
murder can resolve wherever you think they should be resolved.
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geezer
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Kuntz has a father that is a
killler. The mystery turns into a thriller after the killer is revealed.
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mary rosenblum
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Oh yeah, it's not a brand new
thing, but it works just fine. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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If you're going to use the
same main character in more than one book, try to discover (ie invent) new
things about your character for every book.
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mary rosenblum
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Another trick that I found
quite useful in my mystery series is to bring in a new strong secondary
character in every book...
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mary rosenblum
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that readers could explore.
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mary rosenblum
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Once you have developed your
MC thoroughly in book one, you have a balancing act.
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mary rosenblum
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Your 'loyal' readers know this
character. The readers who just picked up Book Three and haven't read your
series don't know this character.
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mary rosenblum
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So you have to make this
character real for the new readers but not bore your faithful readers.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu really need to craft your
first couple of chapters so that events reveal your series MC to those new
readers...]
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mary rosenblum
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but the action of the events
keeps your faithful readers engrossed, so that they're not tapping their
toes...
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mary rosenblum
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waiting for you to get done
going over that characterization AGAIN when they already know this person.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you feature a strong
secondary character in each book, all the readers can enjoy getting to know
this character as the plot unfolds.
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mary rosenblum
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Character development is one
of the strong driving forces in a good book.
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mary rosenblum
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If your character is well
developed after book one, you'll be depending on plot alone for strength...
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mary rosenblum
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unless you bring in a new
'strong character' to develop.
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geezer
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I doubt whether you've dealt
with this Q before. My reader thinks I should consider a sequel to a novel
I'm working on that has a Biblical base. I think it's a good idea except I
would have to use the actual Biblical names for the next generation
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mary rosenblum
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Nothing wrong with using the
Biblical names, geeze. Lots of historical fiction has been written about
King David, King Saul, and a huge host of other Biblical characters.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't contradict events
recorded in the Bible and you're fine.
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geezer
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They are really "bad"
I don't think I could live with them. Any suggestions?
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mary rosenblum
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Try writing with other
characters as the MCs geezer and letting us see the 'bad ones' through
their eyes. Would that work?
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mary rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor. We're talking about the series
character tonight. I've published seven novels (number eight will be out in
November) , more than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any
questions you have. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on
the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question
mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular
'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into
the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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writermom
|
would this be a good time to
reveal a new fact about the mc that wasn't obvious in the first book
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, it is, writer. :-) But
remember...
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mary rosenblum
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we have trusted you to
develope this real person for us. If you introduce a fact that your MC
hasn't even thought about for one second in Book One...
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mary rosenblum
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readers may doubt it. If
I"m adopted, I will probably think about that fact sometime during my
participation in a book length episode.
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mary rosenblum
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So suddenly introducing
something like that in Book Two will simply make readers doubt your
ability.
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geezer
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I don't mean bad as people, but
their names are impossible
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mary rosenblum
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Oh. :-) Just create a
'shortcut' for the name.
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mary rosenblum
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Use your autotext feature.
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mary rosenblum
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Like the name Alfrazcheralone
could become alf in your autotext file.
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mary rosenblum
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when you type alf...the entire
name will pop onto the screen.
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megger
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A series doesn't always mean the
same MC does it? I was thinking about a certain type of MC or is that
called something else?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, most series do include
the same main characters.
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mary rosenblum
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You CAN have a series of say,
cat mysteries, with different characters but they all include cats.
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mary rosenblum
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That's not going to be viewed
as a 'series' by the publishing world, though.
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info
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What if the MC didn't know
he/she was adopted? Would you still have to mention it in book one or would
that be an acceptible way to introduce that little tidbit?
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, if the MC didn't know,
that's fine.
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mary rosenblum
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An old auntie could reveal it
in book two and you're fine. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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AND...if you are doing the
books in first person, you can hide it.
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mary rosenblum
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That first person narrator can
lie to use. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Readers just get made when you
do third person, where we assume we're getting to eavesdrop on the
characters' thoughts, and then spring that kind of surprise on us.
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snooky
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what is the least number of
words that constitute a novel?
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mary rosenblum
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Depends on who is doing the
definition, snooky.
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mary rosenblum
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I think SFWA defines it as
40,000 words or more
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mary rosenblum
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Publishers will generally tell
you what length they're looking for.
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mary rosenblum
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For adult fiction, it is
usually 70,000-100,000 words.
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mary rosenblum
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Some category romance lines
want shorter lengths.
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mary rosenblum
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And YA tends to run to
40,000-50,000 words.
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mary rosenblum
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These are all quite general
length estimates.
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charie'
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Three books is a trilogy. How
many books for a series?
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mary rosenblum
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More than two, generally,
charie.
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mary rosenblum
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Although some series end up
with two books because the series got dropped by the publisher.
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mary rosenblum
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So it might be titled: Blue
Diamond Death, Book One of the Gemstone Series...
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mary rosenblum
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but we never see book three.,
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snooky
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Thanks, Mary. I was just
curious.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, that novella/novel line
is a bit blurry. :-) But usually, for adult fiction, figure on 70,000 words
at least.
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mary rosenblum
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Do see if you can bring in a
new strong character in subsequent books in a series.
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mary rosenblum
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That character need not become
a permanent fixture in the series, but that spotlight will give you a new
character for your readers to explore.
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info
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Sort of off topic a little here
but, how much description do you put into it? Ex: If your MC is in the
ocean on his yacht and everything is calm one minute but changes within two
minutes, do you make the whole chapter describe how the MC becomes unconscious
or would 1000 words or less work with a scene break to when he wakes up?
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mary rosenblum
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It depends on the importance
of that storm to your story, info.
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mary rosenblum
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If the storm comes up and as
the MC battles it, he discovers that someone has sabotaged the steering
gear, then that entire chapter...
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mary rosenblum
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might be about his near death
and the discovery that someone has tried to kill him.
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mary rosenblum
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But if his storm experience
does not tie in directly to the main plot, then it's just kind of window
dressing and probably doesn't need a whole chapter.
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info
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Only important to get MC from
point A to point B
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mary rosenblum
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Well, remember that a good
scene needs to do three things: Deepen characterization, advance plot,
enrich setting.
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mary rosenblum
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If it's not doing at least two
of those three, I'd just transition through it. It took George three days
to make Bezilla Bay after a summer squall tore a hole in his foresail.
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charie'
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I've seen unsympathetic
characters in book 1 become sympathetic in book 2, is this a good
technique?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure! It's a GREAT thing to do
and it's hard. But of course, most 'bad guys' are not pure evil...
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mary rosenblum
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but are rather a mix of evil
and good, and the balance is all over the map. It's a triumph of
characterization in my opinion...
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mary rosenblum
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if you can start with a
character who seems 'bad' on the surface, but as we see that person's
motivations and actions more closely, we realize he's not 'bad' at all...
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mary rosenblum
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there are reasons for his
behavior.
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mary rosenblum
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Rose, by Martin Cruz Smith is
one of those. The MC is essentially unlikeable when we meet him...
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mary rosenblum
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but by the end is sympathetic.
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geezer
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Off topic. On my parallel planet
I have no problem calling animals by their earth name but all my readers
do. There are alot of animals and it would slow the story to describe each
one. Help!
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mary rosenblum
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In the SF universe, if it hops
like a rabbit has ears like a rabbit and eats carrots (or the equivalent)
it's a rabbit.
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mary rosenblum
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If it happens to be moss
green, let someone mention that.
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mary rosenblum
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If your characters are not
speaking English and you're translating in your story, then you're
translating Xrylessa into Rabbit.
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mary rosenblum
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If it's a parallel universe,
then I can't see why you should have problems using regular animal names.
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mary rosenblum
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Either everyone speaks English
there, or as I said, you're translating all speech into English.
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mary rosenblum
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The main thing with series
characters is to know them well enough that you can allow...
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mary rosenblum
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their lives to develop and
change over the course of several books, complicate their lives with
personal issues that aren't directly related to the plot of the book,...
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mary rosenblum
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and bring in strong new
secondary characters.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember that you walk a line
between introducing your MC to new readers even if this is Book Four, and
not boring your loyal readers who know who this guy/gal is.
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spider
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For those who have not yet
pubished a novel, is it easier to get a series published, or a stand alone
novel?
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mary rosenblum
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Depends on two things: The
quality of your book(s) and the genre.
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mary rosenblum
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Mystery and Fantasy LOVE
series.
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mary rosenblum
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Other genres aren't so wild
about 'em.
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mary rosenblum
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But in any case, if you want
an editor to buy several books from you, with a couple that are not yet
written, then your Book One and your series ideas need to be VERY strong.
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charie'
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Can't series also be linked
through the setting? Where the stories revolve around different MCs
reactions to the same grand event(s)?
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mary rosenblum
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That's not really a series in
the traditional sense.
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mary rosenblum
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It would probably be called a
series. Say you wrote three novels where MCs deal with 911 in their own
way.
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mary rosenblum
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But it would probably be
called a series by reviewers rather than the publisher.
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charie'
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For example: Dune or Gordon
Dickson's Childe cycle?
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mary rosenblum
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Dune really is a series. So is
the Pern series.
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mary rosenblum
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The MCs change over time, but
it's a progressive timeline in the same universe...
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mary rosenblum
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You have series where the
world is static, but the characters change over time...
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mary rosenblum
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although usually you'll find a
connection from book to book in terms of characters.
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writermom
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do you set up that connection in
the first book
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mary rosenblum
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I think that first book can
create the connection.
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mary rosenblum
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I don't think Frank Herbert
meant to write a series when he wrote Dune. Not from what I've heard.
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mary rosenblum
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But after it won as many
awards as it did, he pursued it.
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mary rosenblum
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He had such a rich world in
Dune that it was easy to continue the story through the offspring of the MC
in Dune.
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geezer
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My LR teacher has a detective
that deals with her work and then deals with a new marriage in the first
book building a house and moving inthe 2nd. Each intros new characters and
their stories
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mary rosenblum
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THere you go. That's a fine
way to bring in new stuff.
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mary rosenblum
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Robert Parker kept his Spencer
series alive (amateur sleuth) by letting Spencer's life evolve and change.
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mary rosenblum
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His love life with his
longtime girlfriend had ups and downs, his best friend and he had ins and
outs...things happened that weren't directly related to the plot of each
book.
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
Oregon hour.
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mary rosenblum
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Have a good summer weekend,
all, and join us on Sunday for our regular open chat.
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mary rosenblum
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Same time as this one, but we
talk about whatever.
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charie'
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Is it best to plot out all the
books so that each has secondary characters that become MC in later books?
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mary rosenblum
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You don't have to do it that
way, but the more you plot out the later books, the more you can weave
in...
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mary rosenblum
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small subplots that provide an
overarching plot.
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mary rosenblum
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Series are great. Readers get
to know your characters and love your world and they're very loyal.
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mary rosenblum
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Have a great weekend, all!
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mary rosenblum
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See you on Sunday.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post the transcripts in
the usual place.
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mary rosenblum
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Writing Craft: Forum
Transcripts.
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mary rosenblum
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Have a great weekend, all!
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