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mary rosenblum
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Hello all1
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you on the east coast
aren't too deeply buried in snow!
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mary rosenblum
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Once again, I'm deciding that
rain isn't such a bad thing...
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mary rosenblum
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especially on days like today
which was actually...gasp....sunny. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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For those of you who might not
be signed up for the LR eNewsletter, I sent out a call to anyone who
finished the Nano challenge...
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mary rosenblum
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to send me a blurb about the
novel you wrote in November.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post our finishers on the
website.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we’re talking about theme. I’ve
published seven novels (number eight will be out next year) , more than 60
short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you have. If
you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the ‘Ask a Question’
button or the ‘word bubble’ next to the red question mark at the top of the
screen in order to ask a question. Your regular ‘send’ bar won’t reach me!
Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send bar if
that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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I decided to tackle theme
tonight.
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mary rosenblum
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This is more of an advanced
concept, but on the other hand, it is part of what you write...
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mary rosenblum
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and it's better to be aware of
it. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Theme is essentially 'what is
going on' at the deepest level.
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mary rosenblum
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And often....nearly always
when you're just starting out, if you're anything like me...you won't know
what your theme is until you are done...
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mary rosenblum
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with the first draft.
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mary rosenblum
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That's fine. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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So is there any reason to
bother with figuring it out?
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mary rosenblum
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Well, yes.
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mary rosenblum
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If you know what your theme
is, you can tweak the plot and action so that it reflects that theme more
strongly...
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mary rosenblum
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which makes your story
stronger.
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gwanny
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Expressing my "theme"
in one or two words is like trying to nail jello to a tree...it also seems
sort of elusive
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mary rosenblum
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Mostly, it's a matter of
realizing what you are doing. :-) In other words, it can indeed be elusive.
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mary rosenblum
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It can be very hard to
identify at first....mostly writing is all about 'what feels right' when
you start out.
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mary rosenblum
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You do scenes. They work. They
don't work. They work very well.
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mary rosenblum
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As you gain more skill in the
craft you begin to understand why they work well, very well, or not, and
you begin to do things more intentionally.
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mary rosenblum
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Not at first. :-)
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info
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is theme more of an overall
story idea or is it more like what each scene is
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mary rosenblum
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Theme is about the entire
story.
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mary rosenblum
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It's like standing back so
that all the details blur and you see the shape of the whole.
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mary rosenblum
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For example, you might write a
story about a kid and his dad out cutting the family Christmas tree in the
woods.
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mary rosenblum
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And the dad gets a bad saw cut
and the son who's not very old, has to help his dad get back to town and a
doctor...
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mary rosenblum
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and dad has a hard time with
it.
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mary rosenblum
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Your theme might be control.
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mary rosenblum
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Dad had to give it up to his
son and he couldn't handle it.
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mary rosenblum
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On the surface, it is an
entertaining story about a misadventure in the woods and the son's
resourcefulness.
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mary rosenblum
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And of course, you have plenty
of fiction that is written on the 'entertainment only' level and theme is
not really part of that, except maybe accidentally. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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There are many levels of depth
and quality in published prose.
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mary rosenblum
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If you're aware of your
theme...say the control issue in my example...
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mary rosenblum
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then, when you revise, you can
add small details to amplify that theme in the story.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we’re talking about theme.
I’ve published seven novels (number eight will be out next year) , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the ‘Ask a
Question’ button or the ‘word bubble’ next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular ‘send’ bar won’t
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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speckledorf
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Is theme stated in the story
somewhere or do we let our readers figure it out?
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mary rosenblum
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This is entirely something for
your readers to figure out, speck. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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And it's something that they
don't HAVE to figure out, if they read your story on a superficial level,
if they're superficial readers.
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mary rosenblum
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People do read at different
levels.
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mary rosenblum
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When I talk about a book with
my student Michelle, who is 16, she sometimes misses the theme if it's
subtle, and reads for the plot and action.
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info
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I guess I thought that theme was
the idea of what the story is about, plotting is what you do with the story
to get it to where you want it to go and slipping in the clues along the
way. Am I wrong or thinking of something else?
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mary rosenblum
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That's about it, info. The
plot orchestrates the action that reveals the theme.
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mary rosenblum
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Theme is not directly part of
the conflict/resolution, most of the time, but that conflict/resolution
helps convey the theme.
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mary rosenblum
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As I said, this is an advanced
aspect of writing.
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mary rosenblum
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Most people write many stories
before they begin consciously considering their theme before they start!
:-)
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mary rosenblum
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I had published many stories
before I got to that stage. :-)
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gwanny
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okay, now I'm a bit confused,
sorry. I thought theme was sort of the deeper story within the story.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes. That's it.
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mary rosenblum
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YOur story is usually about
several things, not just one.
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mary rosenblum
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That's what gives fiction its
richness.
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mary rosenblum
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My father/son example is about
several things...
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mary rosenblum
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A wilderness adventure with
nice scenery and the drama of the injury.
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mary rosenblum
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It's about the son's ability
to rise to the occasion and do what is needed.
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mary rosenblum
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And beneath that, it is about
the father's failure to be able to relinquish control.
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gwanny
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And...I thought it was something
you don't want to make real obvious. So your reader has those
"aha" moments?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, gwanny, as I said before,
it's something that your reader needs to discover for himself/herself.
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mary rosenblum
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Here' s a rare never...it is
never something you TELL your reader.
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mary rosenblum
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And as I said, not all readers
will even 'get' it.
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mary rosenblum
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Some will read just for
entertainment and not look beyond the action of the moment.
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lapart
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if you dont know your theme you
can still start writing?
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mary rosenblum
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Absolutely, lapart.
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mary rosenblum
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This is one reason I haven't
talked about theme before...
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mary rosenblum
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I don't want people to leave
here feeling that if they don't know their theme they can't write the
story!
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mary rosenblum
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Don't WORRY about it.
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mary rosenblum
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If you never figure out the
theme of your story, that's fine.
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mary rosenblum
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You will as you gain more
skill and knowlege of your craft.
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mary rosenblum
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If you do know what it is, you
can make your story stronger.
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mary rosenblum
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But if you don't know, you can
still write a story! :-)
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wolf122
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A good place to observe themes
is Star Trek Next Generation reruns--each show covered a certain theme. .
.love, suicide, etc.
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, and they're very clear,
too. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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As an exercise, read a story
you've finished and ask yourself, what is really going on here?
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mary rosenblum
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Not on the surface...that is
your plot.
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mary rosenblum
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But underneath.
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mary rosenblum
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What are these characters
doing?
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lapart
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mary, that will not make your
story boring?
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mary rosenblum
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Only if you make it obvious,
lapart.
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mary rosenblum
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Most stories you read have a
theme.
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mary rosenblum
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You may be oblivious to them.
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mary rosenblum
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The author does not print them
at the top of the page: Theme:Unrequited Love
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mary rosenblum
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Theme: Godlike Father's Feet
of Clay
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mary rosenblum
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Theme: Self Empowerment
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mary rosenblum
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They are there for readers to
find or not find.
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mary rosenblum
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What you do want to avoid is
the soapbox.
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mary rosenblum
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You do not want to make every
scene resonate with your 'message'....
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mary rosenblum
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This is About Self
Empowerment.
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mary rosenblum
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This is About Suicide
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info
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even though we, as novice
writers, write a story without having an obvious theme in mind, is it
possible that we unknowingly write it with an underlying theme?
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mary rosenblum
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Of course you do, once you
write something that has real characters and real depth to it.
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mary rosenblum
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I can't stress enough that
writing is all about 'what feels right' when you start out.
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mary rosenblum
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Just because you can't point
at something and say 'this is my theme'...
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mary rosenblum
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doesn't mean it's not there.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu are trying for an effect
and you know what feels 'done' to you.
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mary rosenblum
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And that probably includes a
theme even if you couldn't state it out loud.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we’re talking about theme.
I’ve published seven novels (number eight will be out next year) , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the ‘Ask a
Question’ button or the ‘word bubble’ next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular ‘send’ bar won’t
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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lapart
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what does most editors look for?
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mary rosenblum
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In general, lapart?
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mary rosenblum
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That's an easy one. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Editors look for a good story
that is one they want to publish.
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lapart
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in your theme
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mary rosenblum
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ah...editors don't LOOK for
theme on its own...
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mary rosenblum
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but 'good story' means, for
most editors, one that has depth.
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mary rosenblum
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The characters are real, they
have their own issues, plot and characters are inextricably entwined, and
yes, a strong theme will add to that depth.
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mary rosenblum
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Theme is not something they'll
look at first, but a clear theme will improve your chances of selling...
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mary rosenblum
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since it adds to the depth of
the story.
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gwanny
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If one knows what the theme in
their story is, how early in the story should they begin to weave it in?
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mary rosenblum
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Once you know your theme you
should keep it in mind all the way through, from page one, gwanny.
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mary rosenblum
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There is no set point where it
'should begin'.
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lore alley
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I'm often more clear on my theme
than I am on my plot when I start my first draft. Is that BAD?
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mary rosenblum
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NOt at all, lore. :-) I often
begin with a theme and add characters and plot to bring it to life. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Whatever order works for you.
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mary rosenblum
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Just make sure that your
characters and their story are real.
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mary rosenblum
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I do see 'message stories'
that are nothing more than a sermon disguised as a story.
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mary rosenblum
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NOT a winning strategy!
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gwanny
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Okay, sounds good. If I don't
realize it till say chapter 6, is it worth the revisioning invloved to go
back to the beginning and weave it thru?
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mary rosenblum
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Of course. You're going to
revise this novel three or four times anyway. Knowing what your theme is,
you'll simply tweak to bring it out more clearly during your various
revisions.
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janecj333
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I remember reading an author's
warning not to 'write an essay thinly-disguised as fiction'...I think
over-statement of theme mus be what he was talking about
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mary rosenblum
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Probably, Jane.
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mary rosenblum
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I see them a lot, sigh.
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mary rosenblum
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Stories that are essentially a
platform thinly disguised as a story. Of course readers see through this in
a heartbeat and don't read 'em...
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mary rosenblum
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and thus, editors don't buy
'em.
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mary rosenblum
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Most of the time.
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mary rosenblum
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The trick there is to make
your message as subtle as the theme...
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mary rosenblum
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so that readers figure it out
later, AFTER they have finished reading your story. :-)
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lapart
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is the theme like something they
can relate too
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mary rosenblum
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Well, theme is something that
is usually pretty universal, lapart.
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mary rosenblum
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It might be justice, or
honesty, or pride...
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mary rosenblum
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it's something we have all
experienced.
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gwanny
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For me, those are the BEST
books. I may not recall a characters name, or maybe not even the title of
the book, but I remember the message I received. Now that's a good book!
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mary rosenblum
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And they're hard to do,
gwanny, since you generally need to make the message subtle as well as
powerful.
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mary rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we’re talking about theme.
I’ve published seven novels (number eight will be out next year) , more
than 60 short stories, and will do my best to answer any questions you
have. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the ‘Ask a
Question’ button or the ‘word bubble’ next to the red question mark at the
top of the screen in order to ask a question. Your regular ‘send’ bar won’t
reach me! Or you can use /ask and type your question into the regular send
bar if that works better for you..
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mary rosenblum
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Let's look at Romance for a
moment.
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mary rosenblum
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Here's a case where the theme
is pretty constant from book to book, story to story.
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mary rosenblum
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Love triumphant.
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gwanny
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I may not be able to do it yet,
but it is what I aspire to :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Aspiring is the very important
first step, gwanny. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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The Romance genre is a bit
more formulated (to coin a word) than most...
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mary rosenblum
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but it's a nice example of
theme.
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mary rosenblum
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Love triumphant.
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mary rosenblum
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If you have any other theme,
you're going to have difficulty selling to Romance publishers.
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mary rosenblum
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Sure lots of other plot things
go on...conflicts, betrayals, obstacles to that true love...
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mary rosenblum
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but ultimately...love
triumphant.
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andi
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I thought science fiction would
be mine but now i don't know. my writing is changing
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mary rosenblum
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Change is good, andi. :-) The
more you write, the better you know yourself, the writer.
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mary rosenblum
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What you think you want to do
when you start may not be true months or years later.
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robastor
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Is it too confusing to have
multiple themes in a novel?
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mary rosenblum
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YOu really won't have multiple
themes, rob.
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mary rosenblum
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You're going to have one thing
that dominates your story.
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mary rosenblum
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You can have other things
going on...life, death, love, hate, betrayal...
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mary rosenblum
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think of it as reducing
fractions to the lowest common denominator.
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mary rosenblum
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What covers EVERYTHING.
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mary rosenblum
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That is your theme.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember that fiction is
composed of layers and layers of stuff going on...like a lasagna. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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The more layers, the richer
the story.
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lapart
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in short stories does your theme
or plot tell the story?
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mary rosenblum
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YOur plot tells the story,
lapart.
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mary rosenblum
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Theme is the foundation that
underlies it.
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mary rosenblum
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Theme doesn't tell a story.
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mary rosenblum
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Theme is what the story is
really, at bottom, about.
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mary rosenblum
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You could say that 'story
tells the theme'.
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mary rosenblum
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Tell you what...
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mary rosenblum
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send me a story idea....maybe
one you have done, or one you've made up...
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mary rosenblum
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and I"ll see if I can't
come up with a couple of possible themes for it.
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mary rosenblum
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Usually you can find more than
one possible theme for a story idea.
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mary rosenblum
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But again...worry about that
later in your careers. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Right now, worry about telling
a good story!
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lapart
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kid playing basketball and his
mom missed his last game
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mary rosenblum
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Good one.
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mary rosenblum
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It could be about
responsibility.
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mary rosenblum
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Mom's failure, for example.
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mary rosenblum
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It could be about life's
realities...Mom is single parent and HAS to be at work.
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mary rosenblum
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It could be about
loyalty....she cuts work and risks firing to be there.
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gwanny
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Mary, your book Drylands was
sci-fi, but your theme was true ecological devastation of the eart, true?
Good example?
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mary rosenblum
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Actually, Gwanny, the theme
was 'acceptance'...the double edged sword. :-)
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andi
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a woman going on vacation travelling
across country
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mary rosenblum
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Ah, your themes are legion!
(because this is vague). Could be self empowerment...easy one, that.
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mary rosenblum
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Could be abandonment...she is
contemplating leaving her lover has her own abandonment issues.
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mary rosenblum
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Could be escape.
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gwanny
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LOL, just goes to show you that
we all percieve differently
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mary rosenblum
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Well, ecological devastation
is a major part of that story, but it's not its central theme. :-)
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speckledorf
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Family moves into older
house...teen daughter sees ghost dog...finds its bones...does research
& find out dog wrongfully accused of killing a child...the teen buries
the bones and wakes up next morning with the dog alive at the foot of her
bed.
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mary rosenblum
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Redemption.
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mary rosenblum
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YOu get a second chance. :-)
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info
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elderly woman who hasn't seen
son in decades. she runs a group home and unknowingly runs into
granddaughter she did know about.
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mary rosenblum
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Could be abandonment, could be
family loyalty, could be denial...
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mary rosenblum
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depends on what you do with
the story. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Most of these were pretty
vague story ideas...they could play out in many ways...
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mary rosenblum
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so more than one theme could
work.
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mary rosenblum
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Speck's was pretty specific,
so it only suggested one theme to me...
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mary rosenblum
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and a pretty strong one.
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janp
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Adiction
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mary rosenblum
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Addiction is a strong theme.
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mary rosenblum
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Gwanny mentioned my Drylands
novel.
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mary rosenblum
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That novel is set in an
ecologically damaged future. But it's about people either learning to
accept or refusing to accept...
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mary rosenblum
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their own limitations, their
abilities, their role in life. Even the ecological disaster is because of
acceptance...
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mary rosenblum
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we tailored plants to survive,
we did not fix the problem.
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mary rosenblum
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QED: Acceptance.
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info
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QED?
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mary rosenblum
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Synonym for 'in other words'
or 'therefore'. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I can't remember the latin
words. Quod Est...something. I think.
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mary rosenblum
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Quod Est Dicat?
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lapart
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mary, stories about family
general have one theme like roman
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mary rosenblum
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What theme, lapart?
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lapart
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love
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mary rosenblum
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Family stories can have a lot
of themes, lapart.
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janp
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belonging
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mary rosenblum
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Yep. And desertion (the
adopted child)...
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mary rosenblum
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control.
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mary rosenblum
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self empowerment.
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mary rosenblum
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love
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mary rosenblum
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All kinds of themes! :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Because there are all kinds of
families to work with.
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cosmos
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I found quod erat demonstrandum
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mary rosenblum
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Ah, thank you cosmos.
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mary rosenblum
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As was shown.
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mary rosenblum
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Been too many years since my
last Latin class!
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mary rosenblum
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The main thing I want to
stress with theme is....don't worry about it!
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mary rosenblum
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Don't feel that if you don't
know it, you can't write the story.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't have to know it at
this stage.
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mary rosenblum
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When you read something, do
ask yourself what the theme might be.
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lapart
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theme about work alcohlic father
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mary rosenblum
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That's not really theme,
lapart...that is the plot, most likely...
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mary rosenblum
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it's too specific.
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mary rosenblum
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Theme tends to be a very broad
generalization.
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mary rosenblum
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Here, the story of the
workaholic dad might have a theme of desertion.
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mary rosenblum
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Abandonment.
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mary rosenblum
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Dad is always busy and son
doesn't really exist for him.
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janecj333
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I came across a fantasy author,
Marsha Wells, I think. Her work is well-reviewed and I saw some very good
dialogue in it. It was very heavy on historical research, tho, with dresses
and swords and such, and I wonder if theme can be a milieu sometimes and
not solely a moral statement
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mary rosenblum
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Theme, as it is understood,
does tend to be something character related...a universal like death,
honest, justice, abandonment...that sort of thing.
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mary rosenblum
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She may have strong elements
of historical accuracy, but her theme is something more general and
universal, but those...
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mary rosenblum
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historical details may well
reflect it...
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mary rosenblum
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just as the environmental
details in Drylands reflected 'acceptance'.
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mary rosenblum
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And just for all of you who
don't have a clue what your theme is...
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mary rosenblum
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when i WROTE Drylands, I
didn't either. :-) Wasn't until AFTER it was published...
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mary rosenblum
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that I looked at it and
thought...wow, I did that acceptance theme really well. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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That was my first novel and I
was doing just what most of you are...
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mary rosenblum
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writing what felt right.
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mary rosenblum
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I couldn't have told you what
my theme was if you paid me!
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mary rosenblum
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I know what it is now when I
write a story. :-) But that is many many many thousands of words later.
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gwanny
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LOL..well then there is hope for
my perception of your theme too!! Just may take me a while!
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mary rosenblum
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And see? I DID have a theme
for that book and it's a strong one.
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mary rosenblum
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Did I have a clue when I wrote
it? No.
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mary rosenblum
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So don't sweat it.
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mary rosenblum
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You'll see it later.
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mary rosenblum
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You will DO writing well, long
before you really understand the mechanics of WHAT you are doing.
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mary rosenblum
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But there's no harm in
beginning to work on understanding those mechanics now. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Well, this has been a fun
Oregon hour. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you all join me on
Sunday for our open chat....we just hang out and talk about writing or
whatever.
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mary rosenblum
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It's the same time as this
Forum, but on Sunday.
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mary rosenblum
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I'll post this in the regular
place: Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts
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mary rosenblum
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Good night all, have a great
weekend, and I'll see you on Sunday!
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