Forum Transcripts

Whack the Shoulder Vultures 2/1/05

Event start time:

Tue Feb 01 12:04:01 2005

Event end time:

Tue Feb 01 13:35:31 2005



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello, all! I hope you had a good weekend!

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

I'm nervous...there's a cable company truck out front...so if I vanish...

mary rosenblum

be patient. I'll be back on dial up asap.

mary rosenblum

I wanted to talk about what I call 'shoulder vultures' today...

mary rosenblum

because they afflict every single aspiring writer out there...

mary rosenblum

and they never really go away, even after you're selling regularly. They just show up in different guises.

gail

Love that term: shoulder vulture! How apt. :-)

mary rosenblum

Thanks, I think so. :-)

mary rosenblum

They're just there waiting for your dreams and aspirations to die so they can feed on 'em...

mary rosenblum

and all too often, when you're just starting out and you don't have that affirmation of 'yes, I've sold work'...

mary rosenblum

it's very easy to think that their croaking is the voice of reality in your head. And it's NOT.

roe

So we all know it's easy to say send the shoulder vulture away or ignore it, even duct tape its mouth shut, but serioulsy how do we get rid of it

mary rosenblum

The only way I know, roe is a mix of two things.

mary rosenblum

One you can learn, the other you have to have. And it's integral to success as a writer.

mary rosenblum

The first part...the thing you can learn... is to recognize that croak for what it is.

mary rosenblum

The second part, the part you have to HAVE is the hard reality that you just can't NOT write.

mary rosenblum

You can stop for while and go suck your thumb...beeeen there!...but sooner or later...

mary rosenblum

you are driven back to the screen or the page. You just can't quit.

mary rosenblum

But if you can recognize the vulture croaks for what they are, you won't have to spend nearly as much time sucking your thumb. :-)

mary rosenblum

I was lucky in a way...I sold fairly early on in my career...but I still had to deal with 'em as I got tons of rejections along with the few sales.

mary rosenblum

Hi..I'm back.

mary rosenblum

THe nice cable man only shut me off for a minute there. :-)

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mary rosenblum

Okay...back to the topic.

roe

hmm thought of doing many things, but none of them involved sucking my thumb. LOL

mary rosenblum

Well, it sort of goes along with curling up in a fetal position in bed and saying, I'm never going to write again... LOL Actually, I do it more metaphorically...

mary rosenblum

but I've sure done it.

gail

Okay, so I have the 2nd part. Now, how do I learn what that croaking is all about? Is it true critique or relentless nitpicking? And, how do I tell the difference?????

mary rosenblum

THAT is what you need to begin to recognize.

mary rosenblum

And you have two clues.

mary rosenblum

If you see that your dialogue doesn't work, or you are pretty sure your ending is weak...

mary rosenblum

that's your critical voice and it's probably valid.

mary rosenblum

But when you make tiny changes over and over..a new word here, a shorter sentence there...

mary rosenblum

goodness! That's your editor's job, not yours. You're DONE and I bet you're scared to send it out.

mary rosenblum

When you start thinking...'I'm just not good enough to do this.

mary rosenblum

That's the vulture.

mary rosenblum

There is not good enough/not good enough.

mary rosenblum

Writing is like playing piano. If you're not selling yet, you keep writing and getting better and sending your work out and you will sell.

mary rosenblum

Those 'good enough/not good enought' thoughts come straight from that big, dirty bird on your shoulder.

mary rosenblum

And believe me, many writers never ever entirely get rid of him. :-)

susannah

Can I ask an off topic question?

mary rosenblum

Sure, susannah. Off topic is always fine.

curseofthe44

So, what if the vulture turns out to be right? For example, you might sell a couple of things, but then you never sell anything else.

mary rosenblum

That never happens, curse, unless you either quit writing or always write the same unsaleable thing.

mary rosenblum

I have known a LOT of writers from aspiring through pro...

mary rosenblum

and if you sell anything, you'll keep on selling. Now if you want to sell to a very limited market...

mary rosenblum

or a highly competitive or a closed market, such as lit fic...then you're going to sell less often.

mary rosenblum

Of course if you quit, you won't sell.

budro

any difference between vultures and writer's block

mary rosenblum

Well, I'd say that the vulture croaking is the cause of most writers, block, budro.

susannah

Just curious, did you sell shorts first or books?

mary rosenblum

I sold shorts first and have sold way more shorts than novels, susannah. About 60 to date. I am primarily a short story writer, although I enjoy novel form, too.

mary rosenblum

You don't have to do it that way.

t green

Mary, has your shoulder vulture ever dug in when you get a GREEN light to send in a proposal? Mine keeps telling me that "they'll take a proposal from everyone who asks... etc."

mary rosenblum

Oh goodness yes, t. Only this editor will ever buy from you, he doesn't really want your story he just wants to get into bed with you at the next con....

mary rosenblum

need any more examples? :-) Like I said, they just change feathers, they don't go away.

mary rosenblum

Then there's the 'she's just being nice asking for my book...

mary rosenblum

there are tons more.

gail

I keep writing...and getting better at it, too, I honestly believe. It's the SENDING OUT that stalls me. The biggest vulture in my pack is, "Who wants to hear what YOU [I] have to say?!"

mary rosenblum

And of course, how many of us DON"T see that submission as a huge test? Did I pass? DId I fail?

mary rosenblum

And it's NOT like that, but you really can't believe it until you know enough editors and how they work to understand it.

mary rosenblum

There are editors who don't care for the type of story I write, so I mostly don't waste my time sending 'em stuff...

mary rosenblum

but when I do write something they might buy, I DO send it. Sometimes they buy it, sometimes not.

mary rosenblum

It's not rejected because it's bad...

mary rosenblum

It's rejected because THIS editor didn't want it. So I send it somewhere else.

mary rosenblum

And I do have stories that are hard to sell and are not yet sold. Eventually I'll sell 'em.

mary rosenblum

Meanwhile, I'll keep collecting rejection slips on 'em.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

cloux

how do you shut that vulture up?

mary rosenblum

Alas, you can't really shut it up until YOU are satisfied that you are a success...and depending on how your define 'success' that may be hard or easy to do.

mary rosenblum

If you define success as beating out Rowling in sales...good luck!

mary rosenblum

That's not a very reasonable standard of success.

mary rosenblum

If you define success as making your entire income by writing...you can do it, but it's hard.

mary rosenblum

If you define success by publishing stories that move and matter to readers...that's a whole lot easier to achieve.

mary rosenblum

And your standard of success will probably change as you learn more about the business and get more involved in it.

mary rosenblum

Mine did.

gail

You inspire me with your positive attitude. (Two thumbs up)

mary rosenblum

Well, I've been through all the ups and downs, believe me.

mary rosenblum

And if you don't really take a clear look at what is going in in your head, it sure can cripple you.

mary rosenblum

When I really asked myself, finally, after a lot of published work, why I really wrote...

mary rosenblum

the answer was that I wanted to matter to readers the way the books I read mattered to me, growing up.

mary rosenblum

And you know what? I do that. Readers tell me. So what else matters?

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mmolly

Hi Mary...I submitted my first story last night online...I was thrilled, excited, ecstatic even...now this morning I have more doubts then I do brain cells. How do you cope with waiting for months to find out without losing complete hope and confidence?

mary rosenblum

Yahoo, molly, way to go!

mary rosenblum

Oh, yeah, the doubts really take off once you let that story go!

mary rosenblum

The only good answer is to begin a new story. Do it right now.

mary rosenblum

That way, you have this wonderful new piece to work on, and even if you get a rejection on that first one...and realistically, you probably will...you have your new story to focus on.

mary rosenblum

Have a second market ready for that first story so if/when it comes back, you can send it out instantly without a second thought.

mary rosenblum

I really work at having something in progress all the time.

cloux

What do you do when a publication excepts your article, previews it for publication and then boots it for another article?

mary rosenblum

Alas, cloux,that happens. Until you have a contract something better can show up. And even with a contract, you can always get a kill fee and not end up published.

mary rosenblum

It's just part of life...I assume you queried and were asked for the article.

mary rosenblum

Remember that a query is not a guarantee of a sale... it has simply aroused the editor's interest.

mary rosenblum

Usually it results in a sale, but if your query didn't accurately represent your article, or the editor realizes it's too close to another in inventory, she may not accept it.

mary rosenblum

BUT...realize that you did interest this editor so you will again.

mary rosenblum

Slant the idea to a different magazine and try it there.

luv2write

I've been sitting on two stories and one article. My instructor keeps pushing me to submit. How do I make myself take the plunge?

mary rosenblum

Write the cover letters. Write the query letter. Address the envelopes. Address the SASEs. Insert stories into envelopes. Insert query into envelope..walk to PO and mail. Oh yes, don't forget the stamps.

mary rosenblum

I'm teasing you, luv...

mary rosenblum

but really that's waht you do. Teeth clenched in terror all the way if that's what it takes.

mary rosenblum

YOU have to do it.

mary rosenblum

And half of us have this sneaking suspicion that the 'writing police' will show up at our door and ask us how we DARED submit anything.

mary rosenblum

Or that we'll get an outraged reply telling us never to darken that editor's desk again.

mary rosenblum

Don't worry. You won't.

mary rosenblum

Nobody cares that you submitted this story or query.

mary rosenblum

Nobody.

mary rosenblum

The editor might care if you he/she wants it.

mary rosenblum

Otherwise, he/she says 'no thanks' and returns it without a second thought.

jackie7777

So I should send other articles to the same editor?

mary rosenblum

Always.

mary rosenblum

One dangerous misunderstanding is that you should stop sending to an editor who has rejected you.

mary rosenblum

Editors do want to acquire good writers who will write lots of articles and stories to fill the magazine...

mary rosenblum

and they watch new faces in the slush pile. Will this person get better? Will he/she keep submitting?

mary rosenblum

Lots of people send in one story...and quit.

mary rosenblum

Before you make your first sale to any editor, that editor is likely to know your name. You'd be surprised. :-)

mary rosenblum

They will often remember the last thing you submitted.

mary rosenblum

I LOVE the shocked look on new writers' faces when they timidly introduce themselves to an editor and that edtior makes on a comment on their last submission.

luv2write

How do you deal with family and friends that make what you want to do sound like foolishness?

mary rosenblum

Stop discussing your writing with them, luv.

mary rosenblum

Period.

mary rosenblum

Why should you invite that? Make it a closed subject.

mary rosenblum

Hang out on the website and talk with people who don't think it's foolishness or find a local writers group to join.

roe

so somehow we just have to squelch that vulture and send stuff out and keep sending and writing and sending right?

mary rosenblum

You do, roe.

mary rosenblum

If you listen to your doubts you will not succeed, I can just about guarantee it.

mary rosenblum

You have to have a certain amount of blockheaded stubbornness to keep doing it ANYWAY.

mmolly

One fear I see most in me is that there are so many writers and I think they will ALL be better and more interesting and mine will never be of value to others. (not good enough theory) Does everyone feel that or am I on to something?

mary rosenblum

Oh, goodness, EVERYBODY feels that way, mmolly. You have to prove yourself wrong before you stop feeling that way. Just consider it part of writing...

mary rosenblum

just as the vulture voices are part of writing.

mary rosenblum

They are dark moments you just have to get through. Start a new story or a new article idea. That helps.

curseofthe44

I would like to know how to interpret some editors' remarks. How do I know that the cause for rejection is simply because that editor didnt like it or if the piece actually needs work. For example, I recently received a rejection for a short story. The editor said she liked the premise, but didn't get a deeper meaning from the piece. Now, I didn't write the piece with a deeper meaning intended. So, should I rewrite it, or send it out again and see what happens next? My vulture says no, no, no. It's no good!

mary rosenblum

Well, curse, in this case, the editor wanted a story you didn't write.

mary rosenblum

But if you revise it and send it to a DIFFERENT editor, that editor might tell you that you put too much into what should have been a light story.

mary rosenblum

One problem with fiction is that it is so subjective.

mary rosenblum

What _I_ like in a story is not what Patrick Swenson likes in a story and not what Jay Lake likes in a story.

mary rosenblum

So if you sold a story to me, neither of them would buy it, and I might reject a story that Jay would love, but Patrick wouldn't.

mary rosenblum

So when you're beginning with fiction, a lot depends on connecting to the editor who loves this story.

mary rosenblum

So the more places you send it the better, BUT if you keep changing it every time, you may well change it into something...

mary rosenblum

the editor who just rejected it might like but the editor you're about to submit to liked the original version and won't like this.

mary rosenblum

If you get a SPECIFIC suggestion...consider it.

mary rosenblum

'I thought your end was weak' would make me take a hard look at my end.

mary rosenblum

"I didn't understand your premise' would probably make me clarify it a bit before I sent it out again...

mary rosenblum

but 'It didn't work for me'.. I won't change a thing.

mary rosenblum

Neither will...'the story seemed weak', or 'I wanted something deeper'...UNLESS I hear an echo of 'I told you so' from my hindbrain. :-)

roe

so if an editor said you end was weak would you change it and resubmit it with a note about the change?

mary rosenblum

If an editor makes a specific comment, you certainly can fix that problem and resub.

mary rosenblum

Now some editors won't take it...they didn't want the story anyway but they think you're a good writer, so they're doing a bit of critiquing... and some editors may take it.

mary rosenblum

Won't hurt you to try and it shows the editor you're capable of revising...many new writers are NOT.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

mbvoelker

I am always almost sick to the stomach after putting a submission in the mailbox. And irrationally certain that I've done something utterly DUMB like forgetting the address on SASE or put in the cover letter for the wrong piece. :-D

mary rosenblum

Oh yeah...that's pretty typical. :-) I sweated that 'what dumb thing did I do' feeling many times when I started out. did i do' many times when

roe

Guess you have to look at it that you have nothing to lose but everything to gain, right?

mary rosenblum

If you're happy with the story, or your writers group, instructor, readers really want you to send it out...do.

mary rosenblum

You DON"T have anything to lose.

mary rosenblum

Writers send out stories that get rejected all the time. Pros, new writers, unpublished writers.

mary rosenblum

Join the crowd! If the editor never sees work from you or only one piece ever...how can he/she buy from you?

mary rosenblum

You send more and more and more...

mary rosenblum

and then, if you run into that editor at a writers conference, you introduce yourself, compliment that editor on his/her publication...

mary rosenblum

and ask for tips. What are you looking for?

curseofthe44

Do you send a thank you to an editor who has sent you a rejection?

mary rosenblum

Yes, curse, but with the next submission, not on its own. "Dear Ms Editor, I really appreciated your comments on my weak ending in 'Night Hawk'.. I revised it and it's a much better story.

mary rosenblum

I think you'll find that my ending works much better this time. I hope so anyway.

mary rosenblum

I hope you enjoy Day Hawk. Thanks for your time and attention.

mary rosenblum

That reminds the editor of your previous story...

mary rosenblum

and that he/she liked it enough to comment on it.

mary rosenblum

Remember, they're reading 1000 subs a month if the mag is well known..

mary rosenblum

a little memory prodding is a good thing.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to reach me.

sailor

Within the past 6 months, the same editor accepted 2 of my articles. They pay on publication and sometimes take2+ years before they print an accepted piece. I'm hesitant to send her anymore because of the potential long time in limbo. What do you think? How many shorts have you had in limbo simultaneously with the same pub?

mary rosenblum

I'm laughing, sailor.

mary rosenblum

I sold my first story to Gardner Dozois at Asimov's in 1988. In the next two years he bought five or six more from me and DID NOT PUBLISH ONE.

mary rosenblum

I nearly died of frustration. And talk about shoulder vultures croaking! Whew!

mary rosenblum

And then...he started publishing them every couple of months and it really established my reputation.

mary rosenblum

So...

mary rosenblum

the point is...if this is a big circulation glossy mag...that is a VERY good clip for your repertoire.

mary rosenblum

I'd put up with the lag and keep sending her stuff...when it starts coming out, you'll appear regularly.

sailor

Did Gardner pay you on acceptance or pub?

mary rosenblum

They pay on publication sailor. Nearly everybody does.

tkat_2

Mary, How legit is Hawk Publishing Group? I got an invite to submit work to them but the fee to submit per category has me suspicious. Assuming I place there is only a spread between the fee and first place.

mary rosenblum

tkat always check on a fee contest like that. Some are quite legit.

mary rosenblum

Science Fiction Writers of Earth used to charge a fee, but it's a well known contest and a win there was a good clip.

mary rosenblum

Legit contests do this to keep the submission volume down. and to fund the prizes and often, the contest.

mary rosenblum

BUT...

mary rosenblum

check with Predators and Editors...they list scam contests, too.

mary rosenblum

And google the name of the publishing group.

mary rosenblum

There are a lot of scam 'contests' that offer publication to the winner but then start charging lots of fees...

luv2write

Are contest a good way to get your foot in the publishing door? Or is submitting to magazines better?

mary rosenblum

Except in a few cases, contests are pretty worthless career-wise.

mary rosenblum

The selection process is pretty whimsical...they're not pleasing paying readers, only themselves...

mary rosenblum

but in a few cases, they offer publication in the magazine afterward.

mary rosenblum

Writers of the Future is a huge SF contest with large cash prizes...and a win there is no very highly regarded by the publishing world.

mary rosenblum

But it's a NICE cash prize.

luv2write

So, even if a magazine pays nothing, it's better to just submit to magazines ,etc.

mary rosenblum

If you're trying to build a career, yes, luv.

mary rosenblum

I don't know any editors that are terribly impressed by contest wins...BUT...if you have a story..

mary rosenblum

that is difficult to sell or has not sold, go for it.

mary rosenblum

And if the contest involves publication in the mag if you win...that' sdifferent.

mary rosenblum

Some book publishers feature a contest for unpublished writers and that's just a way to let...

mary rosenblum

unpublished writers get around the agent requirement.

luv2write

So, no matter how often the vultures return, you just have to just keep knocking them off?

mary rosenblum

yep. They're going to return forever, luv, just wearing different feathers. You just get better at ignoring them.

curseofthe44

When starting a career, why start at the top? Shouldn't you start low and aim high?

mary rosenblum

Goodness, why?

mary rosenblum

Say you sell your story to the little mag that pays in copies, but what if the editor of the top market would have snapped it up?

mary rosenblum

Aren't you an idiot?

mary rosenblum

And you do NOT know.

mary rosenblum

Start at the top and work your way DOWN the market.

mary rosenblum

Even in nonfic...where your career will build from low pay/low circulation to high...

mary rosenblum

there is no reason NOT to query the top markets.

mary rosenblum

An unpublished LR student sold a piece to Newsweek.

mary rosenblum

You can't get higher than that.

mary rosenblum

And while that's an exception, why not try to be the next exception?

curseofthe44

So, I can send the same story to the same editor again?

mary rosenblum

I only resend to the same editor if that editor made a SPECIFIC comment.

mary rosenblum

If it's a general...this just didn't work for me, this just didn't seem strong enough for its length...I won't.

luv2write

I think most of us are in fear of starting with top line magazines. Isn't the rejections chance much higher?

mary rosenblum

Of course, luv. It's nearly a certainty. NEARLY.

mary rosenblum

but it IS a certainty that if you don't query them or send your story that you will NOT sell to them.

mary rosenblum

This is why you have to get past the fear of rejection slips.

mary rosenblum

You need to court them by starting with top markets.

mary rosenblum

Knock on that highest door again and again.

mary rosenblum

And yeah, by doing that you'll get tons of rejections.

mary rosenblum

But you'll break into that top market that much sooner.

mary rosenblum

You NEED to collect as many rejections as you can.

mary rosenblum

They are not proof that you are a failure.

mary rosenblum

They are proof that you have set your goals high and are working to achieve them.

mary rosenblum

That is the hardest thing to get through a new writer's head.

mary rosenblum

Boasting that you only have three rejections is silly...unless you've sold the other dozen or so things you've sent out.

mary rosenblum

Saying that you have ten pieces in circulation and have a stash of 50 rejections means you're working.

luv2write

Suddenly rejection seems to not be such a beast out to devour.

mary rosenblum

I'ts not. I'ts a GOAL. It's PROOF that you are on your way to achieving your dream.

mary rosenblum

If a new writer tells me that he/she hasn't yet received any rejections, my instant response is 'why not'?

mmolly

I just realized Id rather have a handful of rejections then none...at least I know Im trying. If I dont get rejections it means Im not submitting! (or selling every 'precious' word I write...lol

mary rosenblum

There you go.

mary rosenblum

And that is the realistic way of looking at it.

mary rosenblum

You will ALWAYS get rejections, even when you are a big name...

mary rosenblum

because you won't always send the right thing to the right market, or that editor will have something similar in inventory.

mary rosenblum

I get rejections. So what?

mary rosenblum

Eventually I sell the story somewhere.

speckledorf

I think what helped me most was realizing that a 'rejection' was really a "no thanks".

mary rosenblum

Good for you, speck. That's a hard one to process. It's so easy to think of it as a 'you bad'!

mary rosenblum

The main thing to work on is the understanding that you need to begin to get your work into circulation.

mary rosenblum

Publishing is NOT a matter of write something good and it will instantly sell.

mary rosenblum

It's a GIVEN that you'll write something good. But even 'good' doesn't always sell easily or quickly.

curseofthe44

Since most editors don't send detailed explanations of their rejections, how do you determine that a story truly needs reworking?

mary rosenblum

when you're first starting out, curse, you will do well to give your work to a critique group or a bunch of other writers to read and comment on.

mary rosenblum

If you hear the same comment several times...weak dialogue, not enough climax...

mary rosenblum

then fix things. If you hear minor, random comments, then it's ready to send out and don't fuss with it forever.

mmolly

I have dead vultures at my feet! Thank You, I needed this today. (Now to clean them off the floor)

mary rosenblum

Good for you, Molly.

susannah

How do I find a writer's group in my area? I live in podunk!

mary rosenblum

come hang out in the chat rooms, susannah. You can find people to work with you here.

mary rosenblum

That's the real bonus of online...you can live in podunk and still be connected.

mary rosenblum

Local small bookstores and libraries will often have notices posted for writers groups...

hopibuddha

So definitely don't make hasty changes when first rejected?

mary rosenblum

I wouldn't hopi, unless you get a specific suggestion from the editor.

mary rosenblum

It's easy to feel 'this is bad' when you get those rejections...

mary rosenblum

but realize THAT comes from the vulture. You liked it before it was rejected...

mary rosenblum

trust that and just send it off again.

mary rosenblum

When I started, I had a file folder for each new story...

mary rosenblum

and before I sent it out I made a list of five markets...

mary rosenblum

starting with the top paying and going down to the low pay or freebies.

mary rosenblum

And as soon as the story came back, I'd check that market off and put it THAT DAY...

mary rosenblum

into an envelope for the next one on the list.

mary rosenblum

If I went through all five, I'd file the story and pull it out months or even years later and most of the time...

mary rosenblum

would see what needed to be fixed. Or I would stumble over a new market...

mary rosenblum

and think, 'ah! it'll work for that filed story'...and often sell it that way.

mary rosenblum

I still like to have stories in inventory for when a new anthology opens up.

mary rosenblum

Then I don't have to write one.

jr souza jr

I am not sure who said this (may have been you Mary) but in a recent post on some site I read this and it hit home and killed an entire flock of Vultures. "Bad writing is only one of many many reasons for rection, doesn't fit , out of season, not our style, just did this, etc."

mary rosenblum

could have been me or someone else, souza. It's the truth...

mary rosenblum

if you graduate from LR, you are not going to be rejected for your prose...

mary rosenblum

but you may have the slant wrong, the editor just doesn't care for this type of story, a similar article is already scheduled to appear...

mary rosenblum

there are a host of reasons for rejection that have nothing to do with quality of your prose.

luv2write

Thanks for all the great advise, Mary. The vultures are being tied and gagged and the rejections don't seem so intimidating.

mary rosenblum

Good.

mary rosenblum

Rejections really are necessary.

mary rosenblum

You are introducing yourself to the publishing world.

mary rosenblum

And alas, the publisher's side of the conversation is going to be mostly rejections when you're first starting...

mary rosenblum

but think of them as 'nice to meet you' greetings.

mary rosenblum

That's what they really are.

mary rosenblum

Oh, nice to meet you. Sorry, I don't need this today.

mary rosenblum

I tell my students to think of their stories as apples.

mary rosenblum

You're selling apples. You say to a customer, want some nice apples today?

mary rosenblum

The customer says, 'No, thanks, I'

mary rosenblum

ve got grapes at home.

mary rosenblum

Do you go home and weep into your pillow???? Your apples were REJECTED!

mary rosenblum

Ooooh horrors.

mary rosenblum

And hard as it is to process...you are selling apples folks.

susannah

Does everyone graduate from LR?

mary rosenblum

Well, some don't, but you know, susannah, it's our JOB to graduate you and we really do work hard at it.

mary rosenblum

We do work at improving your writing. :-) Many of my students sell before they graduate.

luv2write

And one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch.

mary rosenblum

That's right.

mary rosenblum

Your apples are mostly great, and if one is wormy, so what?

curseofthe44

This is COMPLETELY off subject. How did you do at the dog show? My manager was there. She has mastiffs (Skamania Mastiffs).

mary rosenblum

Oh, cool, curse. Saw a lot of mastiffs there. My three year old completed two new obedience titles and my puppy licked about 2000 faces!

geezer

Why do some not graduate?

mary rosenblum

It's pretty rare, geezer, but the course says you will complete two publishable ms.

mary rosenblum

And there are the very few people who won't try to get better. You have to work at it not to, but some do.

mary rosenblum

I've only had a couple, myself.

mary rosenblum

They simply would not change what they were doing. At all.

sailor

LR offers a short and a long course. What's in the long course that's missing from the short one?

mary rosenblum

More assignments and a lot more instructor input sailor.

curseofthe44

Her dog got his third major and completed his championship.

mary rosenblum

Good for her, curse. Tell her I said congrats! I used to own English mastiffs.

susannah

I didn't know there were two. How many assignments in each?

mary rosenblum

The short course is eight assignments, the longer course is 12.

geezer

What level will the novel course be? 200? 300?

mary rosenblum

I'm not entirely sure, geezer. Last I heard, the idea was to make it a course that anyone could take, since some people don't want to write short or do nonfiction at all.

mary rosenblum

I think that's still the plan. Every instructor will deal with students at whatever level of craft that student is at.

susannah

I think there was only the one when I started?

mary rosenblum

There have been two for a long time, susannah.

mary rosenblum

I have to say, I think the longer one is the better option.

mary rosenblum

I find that by the eighth assignment, the level of craft is usually pretty professional, and from then on we can work on content issues.

susannah

I started (blush) in 2004

mary rosenblum

Oh, cool! Welcome to the course and the website, susannah.

luv2write

I'm on assignment 12 of the long course. I love it and hate to see it end.

mary rosenblum

Well, that's why you have the website, luv. So it doesn't really have to.

mary rosenblum

Oh...2000, susannah. Believe me, you're not bad.

gail

I took the short course and wish I'd taken the longer one. Hind-sight's always 20-20, eh?

mary rosenblum

I have a lot of students who say that.

mary rosenblum

I think the real strength of the course is in the final four assignments. That's where my students usually publish, too.

curseofthe44

When will the novel course begin?

mary rosenblum

It should start this summer, curse.

susannah

I wanted to finish, and was determined to get through it

mary rosenblum

Good for you...that's the right attitude for a writer.

curseofthe44

I have finished my LR course (long version) and have sent out all of my stories from the course. I am awaiting responses.

mary rosenblum

Good, curse, and keep them circulating. Try making that list of five markets for each story or article idea.

mary rosenblum

Do realize that if you query for nonfiction, you'll be altering the slant of the article to suit the new market...

mary rosenblum

unless it's something like a personal narrative.

mary rosenblum

Well, this has been a fun Oregon hour. :-)

mary rosenblum

Make a belated New Year's resolution to acquire as many rejection slips this year as you can.

curseofthe44

Thanks for the "five markets" idea. I only started out with two or three in mind for each story.

mary rosenblum

Five gives you a lot more options, curse...and keeps that piece circulating longer.

mary rosenblum

Drop into our casual chat here tomorrow...

mary rosenblum

same time same place.

mary rosenblum

It's a great place to whack vultures, actually. :-)

mary rosenblum

And to brainstorm stuck stories.

mary rosenblum

I'll post this in the usual place...

mary rosenblum

Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.

mary rosenblum

Have a good week, all!

mary rosenblum

Send something out THIS WEEK!

mary rosenblum

Just do it. :-)

gail

When is the Wed. chat?

mary rosenblum

Same time as the forum, gail...

mary rosenblum

10 am pacific, 11 mt, 12 central, 1 pm east coast.

mary rosenblum

See you tomorrow!

 

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