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mary rosenblum
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Hello, all! I hope you had a
good weekend!
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new
here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the
'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or
use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send'
bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to
reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm nervous...there's a cable
company truck out front...so if I vanish...
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mary rosenblum
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be patient. I'll be back on
dial up asap.
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mary rosenblum
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I wanted to talk about what I
call 'shoulder vultures' today...
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mary rosenblum
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because they afflict every
single aspiring writer out there...
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mary rosenblum
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and they never really go away,
even after you're selling regularly. They just show up in different guises.
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gail
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Love that term: shoulder
vulture! How apt. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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Thanks, I think so. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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They're just there waiting for
your dreams and aspirations to die so they can feed on 'em...
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mary rosenblum
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and all too often, when you're
just starting out and you don't have that affirmation of 'yes, I've sold
work'...
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mary rosenblum
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it's very easy to think that
their croaking is the voice of reality in your head. And it's NOT.
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roe
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So we all know it's easy to say
send the shoulder vulture away or ignore it, even duct tape its mouth shut,
but serioulsy how do we get rid of it
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mary rosenblum
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The only way I know, roe is a
mix of two things.
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mary rosenblum
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One you can learn, the other
you have to have. And it's integral to success as a writer.
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mary rosenblum
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The first part...the thing you
can learn... is to recognize that croak for what it is.
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mary rosenblum
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The second part, the part you
have to HAVE is the hard reality that you just can't NOT write.
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mary rosenblum
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You can stop for while and go
suck your thumb...beeeen there!...but sooner or later...
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mary rosenblum
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you are driven back to the
screen or the page. You just can't quit.
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mary rosenblum
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But if you can recognize the
vulture croaks for what they are, you won't have to spend nearly as much
time sucking your thumb. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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I was lucky in a way...I sold
fairly early on in my career...but I still had to deal with 'em as I got
tons of rejections along with the few sales.
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mary rosenblum
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Hi..I'm back.
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mary rosenblum
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THe nice cable man only shut
me off for a minute there. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new
here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the
'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or
use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send'
bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to
reach me.
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mary rosenblum
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Okay...back to the topic.
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roe
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hmm thought of doing many
things, but none of them involved sucking my thumb. LOL
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mary rosenblum
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Well, it sort of goes along
with curling up in a fetal position in bed and saying, I'm never going to
write again... LOL Actually, I do it more metaphorically...
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mary rosenblum
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but I've sure done it.
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gail
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Okay, so I have the 2nd part.
Now, how do I learn what that croaking is all about? Is it true critique or
relentless nitpicking? And, how do I tell the difference?????
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mary rosenblum
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THAT is what you need to begin
to recognize.
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mary rosenblum
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And you have two clues.
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mary rosenblum
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If you see that your dialogue
doesn't work, or you are pretty sure your ending is weak...
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mary rosenblum
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that's your critical voice and
it's probably valid.
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mary rosenblum
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But when you make tiny changes
over and over..a new word here, a shorter sentence there...
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mary rosenblum
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goodness! That's your editor's
job, not yours. You're DONE and I bet you're scared to send it out.
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mary rosenblum
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When you start thinking...'I'm
just not good enough to do this.
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mary rosenblum
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That's the vulture.
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mary rosenblum
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There is not good enough/not
good enough.
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mary rosenblum
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Writing is like playing piano.
If you're not selling yet, you keep writing and getting better and sending
your work out and you will sell.
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mary rosenblum
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Those 'good enough/not good
enought' thoughts come straight from that big, dirty bird on your shoulder.
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mary rosenblum
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And believe me, many writers
never ever entirely get rid of him. :-)
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susannah
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Can I ask an off topic question?
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mary rosenblum
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Sure, susannah. Off topic is
always fine.
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curseofthe44
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So, what if the vulture turns
out to be right? For example, you might sell a couple of things, but then
you never sell anything else.
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mary rosenblum
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That never happens, curse,
unless you either quit writing or always write the same unsaleable thing.
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mary rosenblum
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I have known a LOT of writers
from aspiring through pro...
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mary rosenblum
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and if you sell anything,
you'll keep on selling. Now if you want to sell to a very limited market...
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mary rosenblum
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or a highly competitive or a
closed market, such as lit fic...then you're going to sell less often.
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mary rosenblum
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Of course if you quit, you
won't sell.
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budro
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any difference between vultures
and writer's block
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mary rosenblum
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Well, I'd say that the vulture
croaking is the cause of most writers, block, budro.
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susannah
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Just curious, did you sell
shorts first or books?
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mary rosenblum
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I sold shorts first and have
sold way more shorts than novels, susannah. About 60 to date. I am
primarily a short story writer, although I enjoy novel form, too.
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mary rosenblum
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You don't have to do it that
way.
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t green
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Mary, has your shoulder vulture
ever dug in when you get a GREEN light to send in a proposal? Mine keeps
telling me that "they'll take a proposal from everyone who asks...
etc."
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mary rosenblum
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Oh goodness yes, t. Only this
editor will ever buy from you, he doesn't really want your story he just
wants to get into bed with you at the next con....
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mary rosenblum
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need any more examples? :-)
Like I said, they just change feathers, they don't go away.
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mary rosenblum
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Then there's the 'she's just
being nice asking for my book...
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mary rosenblum
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there are tons more.
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gail
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I keep writing...and getting
better at it, too, I honestly believe. It's the SENDING OUT that stalls me.
The biggest vulture in my pack is, "Who wants to hear what YOU [I]
have to say?!"
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mary rosenblum
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And of course, how many of us
DON"T see that submission as a huge test? Did I pass? DId I fail?
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mary rosenblum
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And it's NOT like that, but
you really can't believe it until you know enough editors and how they work
to understand it.
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mary rosenblum
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There are editors who don't
care for the type of story I write, so I mostly don't waste my time sending
'em stuff...
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mary rosenblum
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but when I do write something
they might buy, I DO send it. Sometimes they buy it, sometimes not.
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mary rosenblum
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It's not rejected because it's
bad...
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mary rosenblum
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It's rejected because THIS
editor didn't want it. So I send it somewhere else.
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mary rosenblum
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And I do have stories that are
hard to sell and are not yet sold. Eventually I'll sell 'em.
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mary rosenblum
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Meanwhile, I'll keep
collecting rejection slips on 'em.
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mary rosenblum
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This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new
here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the
'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or
use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send'
bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to
reach me.
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cloux
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how do you shut that vulture up?
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mary rosenblum
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Alas, you can't really shut it
up until YOU are satisfied that you are a success...and depending on how
your define 'success' that may be hard or easy to do.
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mary rosenblum
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If you define success as
beating out Rowling in sales...good luck!
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mary rosenblum
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That's not a very reasonable
standard of success.
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mary rosenblum
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If you define success as
making your entire income by writing...you can do it, but it's hard.
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mary rosenblum
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If you define success by
publishing stories that move and matter to readers...that's a whole lot
easier to achieve.
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mary rosenblum
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And your standard of success
will probably change as you learn more about the business and get more
involved in it.
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mary rosenblum
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Mine did.
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gail
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You inspire me with your
positive attitude. (Two thumbs up)
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mary rosenblum
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Well, I've been through all
the ups and downs, believe me.
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mary rosenblum
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And if you don't really take a
clear look at what is going in in your head, it sure can cripple you.
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mary rosenblum
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When I really asked myself,
finally, after a lot of published work, why I really wrote...
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mary rosenblum
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the answer was that I wanted
to matter to readers the way the books I read mattered to me, growing up.
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mary rosenblum
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And you know what? I do that.
Readers tell me. So what else matters?
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new
here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the
'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or
use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send'
bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to
reach me.
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mmolly
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Hi Mary...I submitted my first
story last night online...I was thrilled, excited, ecstatic even...now this
morning I have more doubts then I do brain cells. How do you cope with
waiting for months to find out without losing complete hope and confidence?
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mary rosenblum
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Yahoo, molly, way to go!
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, yeah, the doubts really
take off once you let that story go!
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mary rosenblum
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The only good answer is to
begin a new story. Do it right now.
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mary rosenblum
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That way, you have this
wonderful new piece to work on, and even if you get a rejection on that
first one...and realistically, you probably will...you have your new story
to focus on.
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mary rosenblum
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Have a second market ready for
that first story so if/when it comes back, you can send it out instantly
without a second thought.
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mary rosenblum
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I really work at having
something in progress all the time.
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cloux
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What do you do when a
publication excepts your article, previews it for publication and then
boots it for another article?
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mary rosenblum
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Alas, cloux,that happens.
Until you have a contract something better can show up. And even with a
contract, you can always get a kill fee and not end up published.
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mary rosenblum
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It's just part of life...I
assume you queried and were asked for the article.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember that a query is not a
guarantee of a sale... it has simply aroused the editor's interest.
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mary rosenblum
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Usually it results in a sale,
but if your query didn't accurately represent your article, or the editor
realizes it's too close to another in inventory, she may not accept it.
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mary rosenblum
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BUT...realize that you did
interest this editor so you will again.
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mary rosenblum
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Slant the idea to a different
magazine and try it there.
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luv2write
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I've been sitting on two stories
and one article. My instructor keeps pushing me to submit. How do I make
myself take the plunge?
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mary rosenblum
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Write the cover letters. Write
the query letter. Address the envelopes. Address the SASEs. Insert stories
into envelopes. Insert query into envelope..walk to PO and mail. Oh yes,
don't forget the stamps.
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mary rosenblum
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I'm teasing you, luv...
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mary rosenblum
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but really that's waht you do.
Teeth clenched in terror all the way if that's what it takes.
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mary rosenblum
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YOU have to do it.
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mary rosenblum
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And half of us have this
sneaking suspicion that the 'writing police' will show up at our door and
ask us how we DARED submit anything.
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mary rosenblum
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Or that we'll get an outraged
reply telling us never to darken that editor's desk again.
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mary rosenblum
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Don't worry. You won't.
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mary rosenblum
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Nobody cares that you
submitted this story or query.
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mary rosenblum
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Nobody.
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mary rosenblum
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The editor might care if you
he/she wants it.
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mary rosenblum
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Otherwise, he/she says 'no
thanks' and returns it without a second thought.
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jackie7777
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So I should send other articles
to the same editor?
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mary rosenblum
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Always.
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mary rosenblum
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One dangerous misunderstanding
is that you should stop sending to an editor who has rejected you.
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mary rosenblum
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Editors do want to acquire
good writers who will write lots of articles and stories to fill the
magazine...
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mary rosenblum
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and they watch new faces in
the slush pile. Will this person get better? Will he/she keep submitting?
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mary rosenblum
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Lots of people send in one
story...and quit.
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mary rosenblum
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Before you make your first
sale to any editor, that editor is likely to know your name. You'd be
surprised. :-)
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mary rosenblum
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They will often remember the
last thing you submitted.
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mary rosenblum
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I LOVE the shocked look on new
writers' faces when they timidly introduce themselves to an editor and that
edtior makes on a comment on their last submission.
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luv2write
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How do you deal with family and
friends that make what you want to do sound like foolishness?
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mary rosenblum
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Stop discussing your writing
with them, luv.
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mary rosenblum
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Period.
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mary rosenblum
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Why should you invite that?
Make it a closed subject.
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mary rosenblum
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Hang out on the website and
talk with people who don't think it's foolishness or find a local writers
group to join.
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roe
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so somehow we just have to
squelch that vulture and send stuff out and keep sending and writing and
sending right?
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mary rosenblum
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You do, roe.
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mary rosenblum
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If you listen to your doubts
you will not succeed, I can just about guarantee it.
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mary rosenblum
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You have to have a certain
amount of blockheaded stubbornness to keep doing it ANYWAY.
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mmolly
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One fear I see most in me is
that there are so many writers and I think they will ALL be better and more
interesting and mine will never be of value to others. (not good enough
theory) Does everyone feel that or am I on to something?
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mary rosenblum
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Oh, goodness, EVERYBODY feels
that way, mmolly. You have to prove yourself wrong before you stop feeling
that way. Just consider it part of writing...
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mary rosenblum
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just as the vulture voices are
part of writing.
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mary rosenblum
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They are dark moments you just
have to get through. Start a new story or a new article idea. That helps.
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curseofthe44
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I would like to know how to
interpret some editors' remarks. How do I know that the cause for rejection
is simply because that editor didnt like it or if the piece actually needs
work. For example, I recently received a rejection for a short story. The editor
said she liked the premise, but didn't get a deeper meaning from the piece.
Now, I didn't write the piece with a deeper meaning intended. So, should I
rewrite it, or send it out again and see what happens next? My vulture says
no, no, no. It's no good!
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mary rosenblum
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Well, curse, in this case, the
editor wanted a story you didn't write.
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mary rosenblum
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But if you revise it and send
it to a DIFFERENT editor, that editor might tell you that you put too much
into what should have been a light story.
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mary rosenblum
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One problem with fiction is
that it is so subjective.
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mary rosenblum
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What _I_ like in a story is
not what Patrick Swenson likes in a story and not what Jay Lake likes in a
story.
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mary rosenblum
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So if you sold a story to me,
neither of them would buy it, and I might reject a story that Jay would
love, but Patrick wouldn't.
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mary rosenblum
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So when you're beginning with
fiction, a lot depends on connecting to the editor who loves this story.
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mary rosenblum
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So the more places you send it
the better, BUT if you keep changing it every time, you may well change it
into something...
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mary rosenblum
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the editor who just rejected
it might like but the editor you're about to submit to liked the original
version and won't like this.
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mary rosenblum
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If you get a SPECIFIC
suggestion...consider it.
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mary rosenblum
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'I thought your end was weak'
would make me take a hard look at my end.
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mary rosenblum
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"I didn't understand your
premise' would probably make me clarify it a bit before I sent it out
again...
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mary rosenblum
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but 'It didn't work for me'..
I won't change a thing.
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mary rosenblum
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Neither will...'the story
seemed weak', or 'I wanted something deeper'...UNLESS I hear an echo of 'I
told you so' from my hindbrain. :-)
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roe
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so if an editor said you end was
weak would you change it and resubmit it with a note about the change?
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mary rosenblum
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If an editor makes a specific
comment, you certainly can fix that problem and resub.
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mary rosenblum
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Now some editors won't take
it...they didn't want the story anyway but they think you're a good writer,
so they're doing a bit of critiquing... and some editors may take it.
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mary rosenblum
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Won't hurt you to try and it
shows the editor you're capable of revising...many new writers are NOT.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new
here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the
'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or
use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send'
bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to
reach me.
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mbvoelker
|
I am always almost sick to the
stomach after putting a submission in the mailbox. And irrationally certain
that I've done something utterly DUMB like forgetting the address on SASE
or put in the cover letter for the wrong piece. :-D
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mary rosenblum
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Oh yeah...that's pretty
typical. :-) I sweated that 'what dumb thing did I do' feeling many times
when I started out. did i do' many times when
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roe
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Guess you have to look at it
that you have nothing to lose but everything to gain, right?
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mary rosenblum
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If you're happy with the
story, or your writers group, instructor, readers really want you to send
it out...do.
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mary rosenblum
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You DON"T have anything
to lose.
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mary rosenblum
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Writers send out stories that
get rejected all the time. Pros, new writers, unpublished writers.
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mary rosenblum
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Join the crowd! If the editor
never sees work from you or only one piece ever...how can he/she buy from
you?
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mary rosenblum
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You send more and more and
more...
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mary rosenblum
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and then, if you run into that
editor at a writers conference, you introduce yourself, compliment that
editor on his/her publication...
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mary rosenblum
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and ask for tips. What are you
looking for?
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curseofthe44
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Do you send a thank you to an
editor who has sent you a rejection?
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mary rosenblum
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Yes, curse, but with the next
submission, not on its own. "Dear Ms Editor, I really appreciated your
comments on my weak ending in 'Night Hawk'.. I revised it and it's a much
better story.
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mary rosenblum
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I think you'll find that my
ending works much better this time. I hope so anyway.
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mary rosenblum
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I hope you enjoy Day Hawk.
Thanks for your time and attention.
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mary rosenblum
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That reminds the editor of
your previous story...
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mary rosenblum
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and that he/she liked it
enough to comment on it.
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mary rosenblum
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Remember, they're reading 1000
subs a month if the mag is well known..
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mary rosenblum
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a little memory prodding is a
good thing.
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mary rosenblum
|
This is the Tuesday Forum with
me, Mary Rosenblum, LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. Today
we're talking about Shoulder Vultures and writers block. If you're new
here, remember that you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the
'word bubble' next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or
use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular 'send'
bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question to
reach me.
|
|
sailor
|
Within the past 6 months, the
same editor accepted 2 of my articles. They pay on publication and
sometimes take2+ years before they print an accepted piece. I'm hesitant to
send her anymore because of the potential long time in limbo. What do you
think? How many shorts have you had in limbo simultaneously with the same
pub?
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mary rosenblum
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I'm laughing, sailor.
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mary rosenblum
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I sold my first story to
Gardner Dozois at Asimov's in 1988. In the next two years he bought five or
six more from me and DID NOT PUBLISH ONE.
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mary rosenblum
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I nearly died of frustration.
And talk about shoulder vultures croaking! Whew!
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mary rosenblum
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And then...he started
publishing them every couple of months and it really established my
reputation.
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mary rosenblum
|
So...
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mary rosenblum
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the point is...if this is a
big circulation glossy mag...that is a VERY good clip for your repertoire.
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mary rosenblum
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I'd put up with the lag and
keep sending her stuff...when it starts coming out, you'll appear
regularly.
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sailor
|
Did Gardner pay you on
acceptance or pub?
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mary rosenblum
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They pay on publication
sailor. Nearly everybody does.
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tkat_2
|
Mary, How legit is Hawk
Publishing Group? I got an invite to submit work to them but the fee to
submit per category has me suspicious. Assuming I place there is only a
spread between the fee and first place.
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mary rosenblum
|
tkat always check on a fee
contest like that. Some are quite legit.
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mary rosenblum
|
Science Fiction Writers of
Earth used to charge a fee, but it's a well known contest and a win there
was a good clip.
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mary rosenblum
|
Legit contests do this to keep
the submission volume down. and to fund the prizes and often, the contest.
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mary rosenblum
|
BUT...
|
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mary rosenblum
|
check with Predators and
Editors...they list scam contests, too.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
And google the name of the
publishing group.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
There are a lot of scam
'contests' that offer publication to the winner but then start charging
lots of fees...
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|
luv2write
|
Are contest a good way to get
your foot in the publishing door? Or is submitting to magazines better?
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mary rosenblum
|
Except in a few cases,
contests are pretty worthless career-wise.
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mary rosenblum
|
The selection process is
pretty whimsical...they're not pleasing paying readers, only themselves...
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mary rosenblum
|
but in a few cases, they offer
publication in the magazine afterward.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
Writers of the Future is a
huge SF contest with large cash prizes...and a win there is no very highly
regarded by the publishing world.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
But it's a NICE cash prize.
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luv2write
|
So, even if a magazine pays
nothing, it's better to just submit to magazines ,etc.
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mary rosenblum
|
If you're trying to build a
career, yes, luv.
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mary rosenblum
|
I don't know any editors that
are terribly impressed by contest wins...BUT...if you have a story..
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mary rosenblum
|
that is difficult to sell or
has not sold, go for it.
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mary rosenblum
|
And if the contest involves
publication in the mag if you win...that' sdifferent.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
Some book publishers feature a
contest for unpublished writers and that's just a way to let...
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mary rosenblum
|
unpublished writers get around
the agent requirement.
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luv2write
|
So, no matter how often the
vultures return, you just have to just keep knocking them off?
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mary rosenblum
|
yep. They're going to return
forever, luv, just wearing different feathers. You just get better at
ignoring them.
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curseofthe44
|
When starting a career, why
start at the top? Shouldn't you start low and aim high?
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mary rosenblum
|
Goodness, why?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Say you sell your story to the
little mag that pays in copies, but what if the editor of the top market
would have snapped it up?
|
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mary rosenblum
|
Aren't you an idiot?
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mary rosenblum
|
And you do NOT know.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
Start at the top and work your
way DOWN the market.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
Even in nonfic...where your
career will build from low pay/low circulation to high...
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mary rosenblum
|
there is no reason NOT to
query the top markets.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
An unpublished LR student sold
a piece to Newsweek.
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|
mary rosenblum
|
You can't get higher than
that.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And while that's an exception,
why not try to be the next exception?
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curseofthe44
|
So, I can send the same story to
the same editor again?
|
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mary rosenblum
|
I only resend to the same
editor if that editor made a SPECIFIC comment.
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|
mary rosenblum
|
If it's a general...this just
didn't work for me, this just didn't seem strong enough for its length...I
won't.
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|
luv2write
|
I think most of us are in fear
of starting with top line magazines. Isn't the rejections chance much
higher?
|
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mary rosenblum
|
Of course, luv. It's nearly a
certainty. NEARLY.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
but it IS a certainty that if
you don't query them or send your story that you will NOT sell to them.
|
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mary rosenblum
|
This is why you have to get
past the fear of rejection slips.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You need to court them by
starting with top markets.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Knock on that highest door
again and again.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And yeah, by doing that you'll
get tons of rejections.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
But you'll break into that top
market that much sooner.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You NEED to collect as many
rejections as you can.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
They are not proof that you
are a failure.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
They are proof that you have
set your goals high and are working to achieve them.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That is the hardest thing to
get through a new writer's head.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Boasting that you only have
three rejections is silly...unless you've sold the other dozen or so things
you've sent out.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Saying that you have ten
pieces in circulation and have a stash of 50 rejections means you're
working.
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|
luv2write
|
Suddenly rejection seems to not
be such a beast out to devour.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'ts not. I'ts a GOAL. It's
PROOF that you are on your way to achieving your dream.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If a new writer tells me that
he/she hasn't yet received any rejections, my instant response is 'why
not'?
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mmolly
|
I just realized Id rather have a
handful of rejections then none...at least I know Im trying. If I dont get
rejections it means Im not submitting! (or selling every 'precious' word I
write...lol
|
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mary rosenblum
|
There you go.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And that is the realistic way
of looking at it.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You will ALWAYS get
rejections, even when you are a big name...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
because you won't always send
the right thing to the right market, or that editor will have something
similar in inventory.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I get rejections. So what?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Eventually I sell the story
somewhere.
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|
speckledorf
|
I think what helped me most was
realizing that a 'rejection' was really a "no thanks".
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Good for you, speck. That's a
hard one to process. It's so easy to think of it as a 'you bad'!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The main thing to work on is
the understanding that you need to begin to get your work into circulation.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Publishing is NOT a matter of
write something good and it will instantly sell.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's a GIVEN that you'll write
something good. But even 'good' doesn't always sell easily or quickly.
|
|
curseofthe44
|
Since most editors don't send
detailed explanations of their rejections, how do you determine that a
story truly needs reworking?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
when you're first starting
out, curse, you will do well to give your work to a critique group or a
bunch of other writers to read and comment on.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If you hear the same comment
several times...weak dialogue, not enough climax...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
then fix things. If you hear
minor, random comments, then it's ready to send out and don't fuss with it
forever.
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|
mmolly
|
I have dead vultures at my feet!
Thank You, I needed this today. (Now to clean them off the floor)
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|
mary rosenblum
|
Good for you, Molly.
|
|
susannah
|
How do I find a writer's group
in my area? I live in podunk!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
come hang out in the chat
rooms, susannah. You can find people to work with you here.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's the real bonus of
online...you can live in podunk and still be connected.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Local small bookstores and
libraries will often have notices posted for writers groups...
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|
hopibuddha
|
So definitely don't make hasty
changes when first rejected?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I wouldn't hopi, unless you
get a specific suggestion from the editor.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's easy to feel 'this is
bad' when you get those rejections...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but realize THAT comes from
the vulture. You liked it before it was rejected...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
trust that and just send it
off again.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
When I started, I had a file
folder for each new story...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and before I sent it out I
made a list of five markets...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
starting with the top paying
and going down to the low pay or freebies.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And as soon as the story came
back, I'd check that market off and put it THAT DAY...
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|
mary rosenblum
|
into an envelope for the next
one on the list.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
If I went through all five,
I'd file the story and pull it out months or even years later and most of
the time...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
would see what needed to be
fixed. Or I would stumble over a new market...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
and think, 'ah! it'll work for
that filed story'...and often sell it that way.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I still like to have stories
in inventory for when a new anthology opens up.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Then I don't have to write
one.
|
|
jr souza jr
|
I am not sure who said this (may
have been you Mary) but in a recent post on some site I read this and it
hit home and killed an entire flock of Vultures. "Bad writing is only
one of many many reasons for rection, doesn't fit , out of season, not our
style, just did this, etc."
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
could have been me or someone
else, souza. It's the truth...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
if you graduate from LR, you
are not going to be rejected for your prose...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but you may have the slant
wrong, the editor just doesn't care for this type of story, a similar
article is already scheduled to appear...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
there are a host of reasons
for rejection that have nothing to do with quality of your prose.
|
|
luv2write
|
Thanks for all the great advise,
Mary. The vultures are being tied and gagged and the rejections don't seem
so intimidating.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Good.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Rejections really are
necessary.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You are introducing yourself
to the publishing world.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And alas, the publisher's side
of the conversation is going to be mostly rejections when you're first
starting...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
but think of them as 'nice to
meet you' greetings.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's what they really are.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Oh, nice to meet you. Sorry, I
don't need this today.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I tell my students to think of
their stories as apples.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
You're selling apples. You say
to a customer, want some nice apples today?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The customer says, 'No,
thanks, I'
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
ve got grapes at home.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Do you go home and weep into
your pillow???? Your apples were REJECTED!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Ooooh horrors.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And hard as it is to
process...you are selling apples folks.
|
|
susannah
|
Does everyone graduate from LR?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, some don't, but you
know, susannah, it's our JOB to graduate you and we really do work hard at
it.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
We do work at improving your
writing. :-) Many of my students sell before they graduate.
|
|
luv2write
|
And one bad apple doesn't spoil
the whole bunch.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
That's right.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Your apples are mostly great,
and if one is wormy, so what?
|
|
curseofthe44
|
This is COMPLETELY off subject.
How did you do at the dog show? My manager was there. She has mastiffs
(Skamania Mastiffs).
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Oh, cool, curse. Saw a lot of
mastiffs there. My three year old completed two new obedience titles and my
puppy licked about 2000 faces!
|
|
geezer
|
Why do some not graduate?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's pretty rare, geezer, but
the course says you will complete two publishable ms.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And there are the very few
people who won't try to get better. You have to work at it not to, but some
do.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I've only had a couple,
myself.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
They simply would not change
what they were doing. At all.
|
|
sailor
|
LR offers a short and a long
course. What's in the long course that's missing from the short one?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
More assignments and a lot
more instructor input sailor.
|
|
curseofthe44
|
Her dog got his third major and
completed his championship.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Good for her, curse. Tell her
I said congrats! I used to own English mastiffs.
|
|
susannah
|
I didn't know there were two.
How many assignments in each?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
The short course is eight
assignments, the longer course is 12.
|
|
geezer
|
What level will the novel course
be? 200? 300?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'm not entirely sure, geezer.
Last I heard, the idea was to make it a course that anyone could take,
since some people don't want to write short or do nonfiction at all.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I think that's still the plan.
Every instructor will deal with students at whatever level of craft that
student is at.
|
|
susannah
|
I think there was only the one
when I started?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
There have been two for a long
time, susannah.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I have to say, I think the
longer one is the better option.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I find that by the eighth
assignment, the level of craft is usually pretty professional, and from
then on we can work on content issues.
|
|
susannah
|
I started (blush) in 2004
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Oh, cool! Welcome to the
course and the website, susannah.
|
|
luv2write
|
I'm on assignment 12 of the long
course. I love it and hate to see it end.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, that's why you have the
website, luv. So it doesn't really have to.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Oh...2000, susannah. Believe
me, you're not bad.
|
|
gail
|
I took the short course and wish
I'd taken the longer one. Hind-sight's always 20-20, eh?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I have a lot of students who
say that.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I think the real strength of
the course is in the final four assignments. That's where my students
usually publish, too.
|
|
curseofthe44
|
When will the novel course
begin?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It should start this summer,
curse.
|
|
susannah
|
I wanted to finish, and was
determined to get through it
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Good for you...that's the
right attitude for a writer.
|
|
curseofthe44
|
I have finished my LR course
(long version) and have sent out all of my stories from the course. I am
awaiting responses.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Good, curse, and keep them
circulating. Try making that list of five markets for each story or article
idea.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Do realize that if you query
for nonfiction, you'll be altering the slant of the article to suit the new
market...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
unless it's something like a
personal narrative.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Well, this has been a fun
Oregon hour. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Make a belated New Year's
resolution to acquire as many rejection slips this year as you can.
|
|
curseofthe44
|
Thanks for the "five
markets" idea. I only started out with two or three in mind for each
story.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Five gives you a lot more
options, curse...and keeps that piece circulating longer.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Drop into our casual chat here
tomorrow...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
same time same place.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
It's a great place to whack
vultures, actually. :-)
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
And to brainstorm stuck
stories.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
I'll post this in the usual
place...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Writing Craft: Forum
Transcripts.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Have a good week, all!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Send something out THIS WEEK!
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Just do it. :-)
|
|
gail
|
When is the Wed. chat?
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
Same time as the forum,
gail...
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
10 am pacific, 11 mt, 12
central, 1 pm east coast.
|
|
mary rosenblum
|
See you tomorrow!
|