Forum Transcripts

When Do You Revise...and Why? 5/16/06

Event start time:

Tue May 16 12:04:45 2006

Event end time:

Tue May 16 13:30:33 2006



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello all.

mary rosenblum

I hope you've had a great weekend....and I hope those of your in the Northeast aren't treading water this morning!

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about when to rewrite, this morning. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me

mary rosenblum

I wanted to bring up this topic today because I hear so often from novice writers and students... 'I'm going to revise it and send it out again' after they get a rejection slip.

mary rosenblum

And I sure remember having that same reaction when I was first starting out.

mary rosenblum

A lot of new writers also get into peer critique groups or do writers workshops at a conference...

mary rosenblum

where the manuscript may be critiqued by a pro.

mary rosenblum

And it's very easy...especially when a pro does the critique...to try and do everything you get told to do.

mary rosenblum

But these are not necessarily good strategies.

mary rosenblum

It's especially unwise to revise a story JUST because an editor rejected it.

mary rosenblum

Remember that whether you write fiction or non, editors have a LOT of reasons to reject you and quality is only ONE of them.

andi

Mary would a magazine send some suggestions of strengths and weaknesses if asked since the letter was lost in the mail?

mary rosenblum

Andi, if you know that an editor commented on your piece, you could write back to that editor and tell him/her that you really wanted to see...

mary rosenblum

the comments but never received the letter.

mary rosenblum

The worst you can get is no reply.

mary rosenblum

The reason I say that it's not necessarily a good idea to revise when you get a rejection is that unless the editor tells you WHY he/she rejected you...

mary rosenblum

and most won't...you have no idea. It may be because that editor has a very similar story on his desk that he just bought.

mary rosenblum

Or you may not realize that she just published a similar story last month and doens't want to publish a similar one for a year or more...

mary rosenblum

and she isn't going to sit on your story that long.

mary rosenblum

Of course, if you send your fiction out to 20 or 30 markets and nobody bites and this happens again and again...

mary rosenblum

maybe it's time to reevaluate your level of craft. It might be time for some good critiques...

mary rosenblum

see if your readers have similar problems with what you're writing.

mary rosenblum

But one or two rejections hardly means rewrite.

mary rosenblum

Editors are humans with subjective tastes. While a commercial editor (unlike a contest judge of the editor of a literary magazine) has to put the likes and dislikes of her/his readers first...

mary rosenblum

that editor will tend to buy stories he/she likes personally, if he/she figures the readers will also like them.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about when to rewrite, this morning. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me

mary rosenblum

BUT....if you have story or craft weaknesses, you DO need to revise and work on strengthening those weaknesses.

geezer

I am still unclear about what a "literary" magazine is looking for.

mary rosenblum

That depends entirely on the magazine editor, geeze. But they are not looking for traditional conflict/resolution plots.

mary rosenblum

They tend to be looking for stories that reflect a strong use of literary device, perhaps an experimental form, a strong emphasis on style.

mary rosenblum

If you don't read literary fiction, believe me, you don't know what that style is.

mary rosenblum

If you're interested in submitting to one of the lit mags, buy some sample copies.

mary rosenblum

Because they tend to be funded rather than supported through sales, the editor very much buys what he/she thinks of as 'good fiction'...

mary rosenblum

so the only way to really know is to read the magazine. :-)

mary rosenblum

So when do you know you need to revise?

mary rosenblum

Well, if you're getting form rejection slips that say, 'no thanks but try again' that generally means that...

mary rosenblum

the editor likes the way you write and just didn't want this particular story, maybe thought it wasn't quite strong enough...

mary rosenblum

for an unpublished author, something like that.

janecj333

When I was guest editor one summer for a Seattle lit mag, we received one piece of fiction that stood head and shoulders above the rest. I snatched it up, thankful that I'd found something not mundane to anchor the issue.

mary rosenblum

And that's how it works. Each editor knows what works for her or him and that's the only consideration in a lit mag.

mary rosenblum

The 'range' of fiction in a commercial magazine is greater because the editor has to consider a wide range of reading tastes...

mary rosenblum

the people who subscribe to the magazine.

mary rosenblum

If you get a rejection and you liked the story, you thought it worked from beginning to end, you believed in it when you sent it out...

mary rosenblum

don't rush off to revise it after one rejection.

mary rosenblum

You might change the very thing that makes the next editor you send it to buy it.

mary rosenblum

But if you work your way through the list of possible markets and draw a blank on all of them, maybe it's time for some input, if you havne't gotten it already.

mary rosenblum

Give it to several readers and if needed ask specific questions. To be honest, you will be MUCH better off if you can do this step...

mary rosenblum

before you send that story out.

mary rosenblum

I NEVER send a story off without running it past one to three readers, depending on how I feel about the story.

mary rosenblum

(I have the World's Toughest Reader, and she sees everything. Raps my knuckles with her ruler pretty regularly, too. Woman missed her calling...)

mary rosenblum

So if you do that...what do you listen to? What do you change?

mary rosenblum

Your sure don't change EVERYTHING you're asked to change. I don't even do that for my World's Toughest Reader...she's sometimes wrong.

mary rosenblum

A promising young Seattle writer I knew got ruined that way.

mary rosenblum

He was workshopping with several of us who were starting to publish regularly...

mary rosenblum

and he took everything we said as gospel...even when we all contradicted each other. Sigh.

mary rosenblum

By the time he finished doing everything everyone suggested, the stories were a mishmash.

mary rosenblum

Best thing he did was to drop out of that group, but I don't know if he's written much since. That was too bad.

beryl

An author speaking at an event said that she has decided to accept advice that motivates her to improve, she rejects what discourages her.

mary rosenblum

That's sound advice, beryl.

mary rosenblum

Usually, most of us have an unsettling, nagging little voice deep within that whispers ''something isn't right here...'

mary rosenblum

Of course, as a new writer, that voice is often LOUD and comes from your own self doubt and not reality...

mary rosenblum

so it's hard to distinguish what is genuine knowledge and what is merely anxiety. :-)

mary rosenblum

The more you get feedback from readers...and that increases exponentially when you publish...:-) the more you

mary rosenblum

will develope a sense of when a story works and when it doesn't quite.

christopherdale

I would send out my writing first to two of my preachers for scriptural accuaracy and interpretation. Then to two or three others who would critique it for the "HUH" factor. Really helped me writing those articles! :) (end)

mary rosenblum

That's a good practice, chris.

mary rosenblum

It's nice to develop a string of readers with varying abilities.

mary rosenblum

That way you send a story to Reader A for tech details, Reader B for characterization and Reader C for plot criticism.

mary rosenblum

That sort of thing.

janecj333

Sometimes I worry that getting rejections signals mechanical faults (too many long sentences, scenes that don't move the story forward). Other times I examine the story as a whole to try to see what the editor saw, if he thought that not enough happened, or the pov character didn't change in a believable way. It's so frustrating.

mary rosenblum

Jane, I really think you can't do it yourself. I can't do it myself and I've had a lot more experience than you comparing

mary rosenblum

what I think I wrote to what a lot of readers actually read. I know very few pros, even those with more publishing experience than myself...

mary rosenblum

who don't depend on the opinion of others. You KNOW what you wrote...you cannot see that story from...

mary rosenblum

the same perspective as someone who never met these people and doesn't know the world.

lore

Mary I sympathize with that writer. I was doing that, not so much with readers, but with all the writing advice I was finding on the internet. Everyone had a different "must do" rule that I needed to follow. I've just recently started saying "I"m gonna write this the way _I_ want to, whether it's "right" or not." If I don't, I never get it written. Following all the rules sucks the passion right out of writing for me.

mary rosenblum

Yeah, I went through that, too. :-) And after I went through the Clarion Writers Workshop it was even worse...

mary rosenblum

because I could HEAR 19 pieces of advice in my head for every sentence I wrote.

mary rosenblum

You just have to grit your teeth, close your ears and try to focus on what YOU want to do rather than...

mary rosenblum

this technique or that technique.

mary rosenblum

Worry about that in revision. Not when you're creating.

christopherdale

in response to Lore - May I quote a "very famous person"? Anything is allowed in writing - if it works... - Mary Rosenblum ;)

mary rosenblum

Yeah, Chris, but the problem is getting to the point that you know it works. :-)

mary rosenblum

I still don't know all the time, because I push the envelope, try something I haven't before, see if I can make something new work.

mary rosenblum

Sometimes I succeed...sometimes I don't.

mary rosenblum

But that's how you grow.

mary rosenblum

You only really learn what works by doing things that work.

mary rosenblum

That's why it's SO important to tell writers when they're doing something well.

seigfried007

and I thought the Senior Internal Editor was crippling (shudders to think of nineteen voices and listen to her characters laugh at her)

mary rosenblum

Oh yeah, the Clarion Writers Workshop takes its toll. Most participants need at least a year to get over those voices.

mary rosenblum

Ask Charie. (I don't see her here today). She was in it with me.

mary rosenblum

The same thing tends to happen when you critique with a regular group.

mary rosenblum

You begin to know what those people will say.

mary rosenblum

As long as you don't write FOR them, you're fine. :-)

mary rosenblum

But the hard part is creating the confidence to really hear what your critiquers are saying.

mary rosenblum

And you really need those readers. As I said before, it is very very difficult to see your own work clearly.

megger

Is there a clear and general distinction between editing and critiqueing? Some line drawn?

mary rosenblum

Oh there certainly IS, megger.

mary rosenblum

And editor does not CHANGE content.

mary rosenblum

Even the tiniest change gets sent back to me, the author to make.

mary rosenblum

Editors don't CHANGE the story when they edit, they make it stronger through the mechanics of the prose. Now they may ask you to make a LOT of changes...

mary rosenblum

but that's YOUR job. A critiquer should deal with content first.

mary rosenblum

Did I get this, where did I get lost, do I understand what you're doing here, and do I think you accomplished it?

mary rosenblum

Yeah, it's fine to point out bad prose habits...but that's secondary.

cosmos

Is the public library a good place to find readers? After all librarians are the best friends of a writer.

mary rosenblum

Could be, cosmos. I have a couple of readers who are not writers but they read extensively in the genres I write in.

mary rosenblum

But they can't give me the feedback that another writer can....'your POV breaks down in chapter four and it really makes the action hard to follow'.

beryl

I'm reading CRESCENT, been well received. Came across sentences I would be harshly critiqued for...but Diana Abu-Jaber knows how to make it work. I figure I'll be more traditional till I get published a bit, am I thinking correctly?

mary rosenblum

That's a good idea, beryl. Yes, anything can work. But that 'work' is the Catch 22.

mary rosenblum

It's much more difficult to do something like omnicient POV, say, or alternating first person POV, or a long internal monologue piece and make it powerful.

mary rosenblum

When you're starting to learn craft....it's a good idea to learn to do the 'rules' well before you start busting 'em. :-)

mary rosenblum

But if a particular form really seems to work for you...go for it, even if it flies in the face of all those 'rules'.

mary rosenblum

Your readers will tell you if it works or not.

megger

Thanks, Mary. I need better readers.

mary rosenblum

Yeah,good readers are really important, megger.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about when to rewrite, this morning. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me

geezer

How soon can I start a chase in a first chapter? What kind of balance do I need between characterization and action in the first scene?

mary rosenblum

You can start it in your first sentence, geeze.

mary rosenblum

Just give the readers just enough details to place us in that immediate universe...

mary rosenblum

and let us know who is good guy and bad guy...we'll wait for a break to find out more.

libertybell

does characterization come in response to action?

mary rosenblum

Response to actions is a potent way to convey characterization, bell. We react according to who we are.

mary rosenblum

The way I react to a situation is not the way my next door neighbor or my sister or my son would react.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about when to rewrite, this morning. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me

andi

off topic Mary. You said something about if something you read moved you, you pick it apart. i didn't understand then what you meant.

mary rosenblum

Oh, good question, andi.

mary rosenblum

What I meant by that is that what moves you in fiction is not accidental.

mary rosenblum

The author MEANT to move you, engage you, really get your attention.

mary rosenblum

And that author used craft techniques to do just that.

mary rosenblum

So if you read a scene and it absolutely sweeps you into the situation so that you're breathless after

mary rosenblum

and feel that you were THERE

mary rosenblum

go back over it sentence by sentence, word by word.

mary rosenblum

See if you can figure out WHY those simple words had the effect they did.

mary rosenblum

The sooner you can notice the techniques the author used, the sooner you will begin to use them in your own prose.

mary rosenblum

It's hard at first.

mary rosenblum

That's why it's so hard to understand why YOUR story didn't get accepted when it was so much like one that did.

mary rosenblum

You can't really see the differences in craft.

mummsy

how important is physical description of characters in a short story.

mary rosenblum

Less important than most writers think, mumms.

mary rosenblum

We need to know basics...gender, age, rough physical attributes (very fat, very tall, very short...that sort of extreme)...

mary rosenblum

but readers are happy to put their ideal into the role.

mary rosenblum

So a LOT of detail isn't necessary.

beryl

If reading and re-reading someone else's work will reveal secrets, though perhaps agonizing, if I re-read an re-read my work...would it render my secrets...good and bad?

mary rosenblum

Not now, but later on, when you've advanced in craft, you can look back at a story and see the 'holes'...the weaknesses that you couldn't see then.

mary rosenblum

By looking at something that...in comparison to your work...seems stronger, you can begin to analyze what it is that is different...

mary rosenblum

from what you did, and to begin to see how that made this piece stronger.

mummsy

unfortunately, sometimes i see the 'holes' a short time after i've submitted the piece

mary rosenblum

Yeah...and sometimes that's real and a good reason to give every story a 'cooling off period' or get a critque or three before you send it off...

mary rosenblum

and sometimes it's what my friends and I call the 'printer transformation'. The minute you print out the story to send it seems AWFUL.

mary rosenblum

It really isn't. It's just a case of doubt.

andi

thanks Mary. I've read books that made me cry or laugh

mary rosenblum

Those are the ones to look at.

mary rosenblum

Look at HOW the writer made that happen.

mary rosenblum

How did she make those characters so real that they moved you to tears?

paminnapa

to the physical description....as a new writer.....I think I overcharacterize...trying to get used to that show don't tell stuff that I struggle with...do I have enough...too much...then the shoulder vulture hits and I end up wanting to scrap it all. How do you know if you have too much...not enough...as that where the readers come in.

mary rosenblum

That is really where you need readers, pam.

mary rosenblum

More often than not, what you will find is that you're doing way better than you thought...

mary rosenblum

and you can relax a bit. :-)

mary rosenblum

But that's only if your readers tell you what works as well as what the weak points are.

mary rosenblum

You will find people who get so busy trying to find every little weakness that they forget to tell you what was strong.

mary rosenblum

They're not much use unless you balance them with readers who can tell you what does work.

mary rosenblum

And if they discourage you too much, they're not worth it.

mary rosenblum

They're not helping you, dump 'em.

mary rosenblum

I have some readers who do one thing very well... a writer friend of mine knows everything military and gives me GREAT critiques on my military stuff...

mary rosenblum

but he writes a very different type of fiction and he can't see what I'm trying to do for love nor money.

mary rosenblum

So I take the military comments and ignore the rest of what he has to say. :-)

mary rosenblum

Or religion. That's another of his specialties.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer. We're talking about when to rewrite, this morning. If you're new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won't reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me

mary rosenblum

But it's hard at first to get a sense of which comments are good ones and which comments are not.

mary rosenblum

The best way to handle it, I found, was to read everything.

mary rosenblum

It's ALL going to sting, unless it's praise.

mary rosenblum

That's normal.

mary rosenblum

Read them or listen to them and make notes and then put the whole thing aside..

mary rosenblum

for days or even a couple of weeks...until you don't feel your hackles rising every time you think about those comments! :-)

mary rosenblum

Then go back and read them again in a somewhat 'cooler' state of mind.

mary rosenblum

Some comments will 'bite' you. Oh, gee, maybe I didn't make his motives clear...

mary rosenblum

And others are just plain from out of left field...the reader read a different story than you were writing!

mary rosenblum

Or they're not help with this story, they're suggestions on how to write a new story.

mary rosenblum

See which comments seem to feel right. Usually...which ones make you wince. :-)

mary rosenblum

Ooooh...I thought I made that clear.

mary rosenblum

Hmm...I guess he does seem like a jerk here.

mummsy

is there a term for the 'magic' that happens when you're stuck on a re-write and suddenly something brilliant jumps out of your head?

mary rosenblum

Oooh...don't you LOVE those???

mary rosenblum

I don't know of any term for them, but they're SO wonderful when they happen. :-)

mary rosenblum

They're sort of what I live for in writing. That 'aha' moment.

beryl

I've heard: 1/3 right, 1/3 wrong and 1/3 grey...the author makes the ultimate decision.

mary rosenblum

yeah, that's probably roughly right, beryl.

mary rosenblum

And you DO have to decide.

mary rosenblum

Some readers will always want to rewrite your story into a different one.

mary rosenblum

Others are better at seeing the weaknesses in THIS story. (Keep them! Those are good readers!)

mary rosenblum

Some will just look for nits to pick and miss what's going on entirely.

mary rosenblum

You have to wait for your own creative brain to comment...'gee, maybe I didn't make that as clear as I thought'.

mary rosenblum

And of course, if you get the same comment from several people...'I really couldn't see where we were'...

mary rosenblum

then LISTEN to it!

paminnapa

on the other spectrum...if you are reading someone's stuff and it has serious errors....how much do you say....so that you dont hurt feelings..and not have them change too much..

paminnapa

change it for them..i meant

mary rosenblum

That's always hard, pam.

mary rosenblum

I find it much easier to critique a well written story than one with a ton of problems...

mary rosenblum

because I don't want to overwhelm someone who is just starting out with a long list of negative comments.

mary rosenblum

So I tend to pick out the biggest problem I can see, tell the writer what he/she has done well and then focus on that..

mary rosenblum

weakness. I might comment on some lesser issues in passing, but I sure won't try to pick out every last problem with the piece all at once...

mary rosenblum

unless I know the writer well enough to know that this person can handle this type of extensive commentary without getting wounded.

mary rosenblum

And usually I don't know the writer that well....it's a new student, I'm doing a workshop at a conference, something like that.

gskearney

Epiphany is the technical term for an 'aha' moment, and ain't they just wonderful. --gk

mary rosenblum

There you go, gary. And they ARE aren't they?

beryl

Ran into this at a critique group. It was suggested that the writer take his good start and make the bones of the storyline stronger and we'll work on anything else when he comes back. (We all sighed a sign of relief and knew we had a good leader) : - )

mary rosenblum

That sounds good, beryl.

mary rosenblum

He learned what he did well...the start...and what his biggest weakness was...his plot structure...

mary rosenblum

and has a chance to improve that before he hears any more.

kashmir

during this forum, my best reader sent me just the critique I needed to finish off my revision...my sister :-) very timely!

mary rosenblum

Super, kashmir! How nice that you have a good reader in your family. :-)

cosmos

My husband is my BEST reader...a Mensa, a grammar fanatic, and a great writer who doesn't like to write.

mary rosenblum

good for you, cosmos.

mary rosenblum

But it's always a good idea to use more than one reader.

mary rosenblum

Every reader has strengths and blind spots.

mary rosenblum

The main thing is to remember this....YOU wrote this story. YOU know what you meant to do.

mary rosenblum

If you go to a conference and a pro tells you things that just don't seem right...

mary rosenblum

then they're NOT right.

mary rosenblum

Not every professional writer is a good critiquer. :-) I've run some writers workshops at conferences...

mary rosenblum

and I can tell you right now that I have a short list of well published pros who will never be part of any workshop I run..

mary rosenblum

because they're terrible critiquers. :-)

libertybell

How long does it generally take to write a 50,000 line piece

mary rosenblum

Gosh liberty that depends entirely on how you write...

mary rosenblum

how fast, how long you can sit in front of the computer...

mary rosenblum

how quickly you think.

cosmos

Revision needed...my instructors from ICL, LR, and WD are my BEST readers! Then comes my husband.

mary rosenblum

Good cosmos. The people critiquing for ICL and LR are supposed to be good readers. That's why we got hired. :-)

mary rosenblum

And if a reader only tells you that your stuff is wonderful...get a new reader!

mary rosenblum

Nothing is perfect and everything has some weak spots somewhere, even if they're minor.

libertybell

Is 22500 lines in 3 weeks slow

mary rosenblum

There is no slow or fast, liberty.

mary rosenblum

Good or bad matter...not speed.

mary rosenblum

If it takes you ten years to write a poweful novel, that's what it takes. If it takes you six months to write a powerful novel, that's what it takes.

mary rosenblum

That's the one caveat to the 'write fast' challenges like nanowrimo.

mary rosenblum

While they are a cool tool to get you writing, realize that quality matters and what you may shortcut to get that novel done in a very limited time...

mary rosenblum

may bite you in the butt in the end.

mary rosenblum

So do them, by all means, but don't make every project a time trial!

mary rosenblum

Sometimes the words will just FLOW and other times they'll seep out like molasses from a cracked jar.

mary rosenblum

So the next time you get a rejection and no information...just a printed form...

mary rosenblum

read the story over. If nothing weak jumps out at you, then don't revise it. What are you going to change if everything seems okay?

mary rosenblum

Just send it out again.

mary rosenblum

Or give it to two or three readers if you haven't done that already and see what they have to say.

mary rosenblum

If they all tell you the same thing bothered them, maybe you'd better fix that.

mary rosenblum

(Ideally do that BEFORE you send the story out).

mary rosenblum

But don't revise just because it didn't get accepted so 'something' must be wrong. YOu just don't know WHY that story didn't get picked up.

libertybell

What is nanowrimo (somewhat new here).

mary rosenblum

It's national novel writing month, bell. Every November, lots and lots of writers...

mary rosenblum

sign up to write a novel draft in one month...from Nov 1 - Nov 30.

mary rosenblum

The people who complete the challenge get their names posted on the website.

mary rosenblum

It's a good exercise. :-)

aelle

Do you run it by readers again after you revise it?

mary rosenblum

Depends, aelle.

mary rosenblum

I usually don't, since my changes usually fix any problem...but if I change the plot or do an actual...

mary rosenblum

rewrite, where I alter the content a lot, then I might.

mary rosenblum

Depends on how much you change.

mary rosenblum

If you make big changes...you might want readers to look at it again.

mary rosenblum

If you make tweaks, probably you don't need to.

mary rosenblum

Learning to make changes is probably the biggest 'step forward' you will make as a novice writer.

mary rosenblum

The ability to look beyond 'my precious words' to 'my story' is a huge advancement.

mary rosenblum

It is generally the hardest step for everyone to make.

mary rosenblum

Very few novice writers are willing to make any significant change in what they write, at first.

mary rosenblum

But change = progress.

mary rosenblum

Well, this has been a fun Oregon hour. :-)

mary rosenblum

Do join us tomorrow...same time and place...

mary rosenblum

for our casual chat.

mary rosenblum

No topic, we just all hang out and talk about whatever.

cosmos

Thank you for the encouragement today. I needed to hear what was said in the forum.

mary rosenblum

I'm glad it helped cosmos. :-)

mary rosenblum

Thanks for coming, all!

mary rosenblum

I'll post the transcripts in the usual place...

mary rosenblum

Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts.

 

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