Forum Transcripts

Writing and Career: Same or Different? 1/3/06

Event start time:

Tue Jan 03 12:05:42 2006

Event end time:

Tue Jan 03 13:49:40 2006



Legend:
Questions from the Audience are presented in red.
Answers by the Speaker are in black.
The Moderator's comments are in blue.

mary rosenblum

Hello all, and happy New Year!

mary rosenblum

I hope you all had a great holiday season and are looking forward to the new year...

mary rosenblum

with great resolutions to write more and send your work out. :-)

mary rosenblum

Make it a goal to get at least one rejection slip this year.

mary rosenblum

Many is better.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we’re talking about career and writing. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

cosmos

LOL... that won't be hard to get a rejection slip this year!

mary rosenblum

Ah, it's amazingly hard, cosmos. You have to finish something and then you have to send it out.

mary rosenblum

That stops MANY aspiring writers right there.

cosmos

I have a notebook of rejection slips!

mary rosenblum

Good. You're on the right track.

mary rosenblum

Part of why I chose the topic I did for today is because I end up with a lot of students who really have a hard time understanding...

mary rosenblum

what their actual goals are.

mary rosenblum

It's VERY hard to see beyond 'get published' when you first start writing.

mary rosenblum

But you can make the process easier for yourself...or perhaps harder...by understanding what you really want your writing to do for you.

mary rosenblum

Publishing options have really expanded in the past few years.

mary rosenblum

If you can come to a clear goal of what you want, you may find that your options are much more open than you realized.

mary rosenblum

Or...much more limited. :-)

mary rosenblum

There is a vast difference, for example, between writing to get published and writing to begin a professional career.

neo

I teach my students to get their first ten rejections just as quickly as possible. Get it over with, and get over it!

mary rosenblum

That's a good goal, neo.

mary rosenblum

It's pretty awful at first, but some of the sting moderates over time.

paminnapa

I got mine out of the way....storyhouse rejected me although I knew they would since they were bought out:)

mary rosenblum

Nice that they at least sent you a rejection, pam.

mary rosenblum

A reminder for those of you who might have stories at Storyhouse.com...they were bought out by...

mary rosenblum

another coffee roaster and are no longer taking stories.

info

isn't writing to begin a professionsl career along the same lines as writing what you love and trying to sell it?

mary rosenblum

That's always the way to start, info.

mary rosenblum

It takes a pretty well developed degree of technical proficiency to write something you don't read and love well...

mary rosenblum

and even then it's usually not as strong as what you love.

mary rosenblum

It's more about how you handle marketing...what markets you choose, what you DO with your words.

neo

So many beginners aim at, say, the New Yorker for first credits.

mary rosenblum

Of course.

mary rosenblum

And if you're after a professional career, that's where you should aim if you think your work fits there.

mary rosenblum

Why not?

mary rosenblum

Non-published first timers have been known to really wow and editor at the top houses.

mary rosenblum

Not often, but happens.

mary rosenblum

It's a matter of respecting your work. If you think it's good, market it like it's good!

neo

because it's unrealistic?

mary rosenblum

It's only unrealistic if you expect it to sell and are devastated when it does not.

mary rosenblum

If you think it fits, that's where you should start. When you get it back, you send it to the next market on your list.

mary rosenblum

Now that does not mean you pick the top publisher and submit your work even though you KNOW they don't...

mary rosenblum

publish romance or SF or whatever it is that you have.

mary rosenblum

Never waste an editor's time. They have LOOOONG memories.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we’re talking about career and writing. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

cosmos

My favorite rejection was a personal letter from the New Yorker encouraging me to keep sending it out.

mary rosenblum

And very likely that means you made it past the 'awful' pile into the 'decent amateur' pile, cosmos.

mary rosenblum

Nice job.

neo

It's unrealistic to expect to begin at the top. We all have to put in our time and pay our dues.

mary rosenblum

Not true, neo!

mary rosenblum

That is one of the myths I want to deal with here.

mary rosenblum

You will...you WILL..

mary rosenblum

put in your time, but not by STARTING at the bottom and working up.

mary rosenblum

If you believe in your work start at the top.

mary rosenblum

I sent my very first ever short story to Analog magazine...

mary rosenblum

and got a full page rant from Stan Schmidt...who was going to buy it until he got to the ending.

mary rosenblum

I sold my very next short story to Asimovs.

mary rosenblum

If I had started at the bottom I probably would have sold both those stories...

mary rosenblum

to some minor small press mag.

marina

Please say more about the diffeence between writing to get published and writing to begin a professional career, Mary

kungfumama

Mary can you please go into detail between the difference between getting published vs a professional career?

mary rosenblum

The difference is where you send out your work and how you publish.

mary rosenblum

If you just want to hold that book in your hands...

mary rosenblum

if you have a comfortable day job and yeah, would love to be the next blockbuster...

mary rosenblum

and become a millionaire, don't we all...

mary rosenblum

but mostly you want that book OUT there...

mary rosenblum

then publish with something like iUniverse.

mary rosenblum

You won't make a lot of money on your book unless it really prolierates on the internet, for example...

mary rosenblum

but you will get it onto the shelf a WHOLE lot sooner than if you try all the NY publishers...

mary rosenblum

or have to find an agent and end up taking five years to work...

mary rosenblum

your way through the potential NY houses.

mary rosenblum

If you want a career as a writer...you want to do this for the rest of your life...

mary rosenblum

and are willing to give up other things to do it...

mary rosenblum

you do NOT go that route.

mary rosenblum

You tough out the long, slow, discouraging process of courting the top markets.

kungfumama

part of what I'm encountering is determining what market my writing style was good for. And then finding the appropriate market.

mary rosenblum

Taht's hard, kung, especially if you fall 'between the cracks' of various market labels.

mary rosenblum

There are publishers to suit everybody but not all of them are well distributed and well known.

mary rosenblum

Read as widely as you can and see who seems to publish stuff similar to what you write.

mary rosenblum

What DO you write, by the way?

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we’re talking about career and writing. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

ling630

Is it better to apply for articles or stories first and get rejected or is it better to send stories away to contests?

mary rosenblum

Ah, this is another career issue.

mary rosenblum

If you are seriously looking for a career as a name-known writer, stay away from contests.

mary rosenblum

Even the really big ones like Writers Digest are not respected much by editors.

mary rosenblum

Contests are decided by a judge and that judge picks what he/she likes...

mary rosenblum

They're very whimsical.

mary rosenblum

If you can't sell a piece, if it has a limited market and you've exhausted it...do a contest.

mary rosenblum

Otherwise, don't.

wolf122

Do you loose first rights sending stories to contests or winning them?

mary rosenblum

Only if they publish the winners, which many do, wolf.

mary rosenblum

THere is nothing wrong with sending a story to a contest that does not...

mary rosenblum

compromise your rights...it simply ties up your story for some time.

mary rosenblum

And if you win it, you can mention it in your cover letter...

mary rosenblum

won't help you a LOT, but it won't hurt you much either.

mary rosenblum

But if you submit to a contest that publishes, you do lose your First Rights.

kungfumama

oh, it borders between YA and regular fantasy. Cozy mysteries too.

mary rosenblum

Oh you have a huge market, kung! You have both the YA market AND the fantasy and mystery market. :-)

mary rosenblum

See if you can do a mystery or SF convention at some point and ask authors about publishers.

janecj333

the learning curve for writers, even those who have excellent vocabularies and grammar/spelling skills, is very steep. Publishers in I don't know how many how-to articles complain of receiving work from beginners that is not publishable

mary rosenblum

Ah, what you all need to realize is that if you're a LR student or simply work at getting better...you workshop, you analyze other writers...

mary rosenblum

your prose is engaging and your story readable...you are ahead of say 80% of the slush already.

mary rosenblum

I am not kidding. ANYONE can send off a story and ANYONE does.

redwagonmaster

what are the boundaries of writing a thousand word summary of a 1000 word story. i dont get it?

mary rosenblum

If you're talking a LR assignment five, red, you're not. :-) The summary assignments are for longer pieces.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we’re talking about career and writing. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

janecj333

if it's that 'awful pile' that must be remedied, the question is how

mary rosenblum

Well the awful pile isn't your worry, and I doubt that many if any of you are in it. It's pretty bad.

mary rosenblum

But how each person gets better is to push the envelope.

mary rosenblum

Don't set your goal at emulating someone...set it as writing something BETTER.

redwagonmaster

should a writer get an agent?

mary rosenblum

Youi only need an agent, red, if you have a contract to a NY publishing house or you plan to submit...

mary rosenblum

a novel to a publishing house that does not take unagented submissions. (Most of them).

mary rosenblum

You don't need one for short fiction and short nonfiction.

marina

What is the YA market?

mary rosenblum

Oh, sorry, marina. Young Adult.

redwagonmaster

where is a good place to find an agent ?

mary rosenblum

http://www.aar-online.org/index.html Association of Authors’ Representative homepage

mary rosenblum

They have a very educational FAQ page that tells you exactly how to go about it...

mary rosenblum

and they have contact info for agent members who are taking on new clients.

paminnapa

seems like getting started is a catch 22. Most reputable places want clips, you cant get clips unless you get published.

mary rosenblum

It is, but pam, you have to realize that every single editor out there wants new, outstanding writers...

mary rosenblum

in his/her 'stable'.

mary rosenblum

What that 'no clips' thing means is that you have to give the editor something that editor REALLY wants.

mary rosenblum

Then, the lack of clips means nothing.

mary rosenblum

They will not hand you a run of the mill assignment that they could...

mary rosenblum

give to a freelancer they've worked with before. That's the perk YOU earn as you...

mary rosenblum

amass clips. But they sure will take something new and creative from you.

mary rosenblum

They WANT new hot writers.

mary rosenblum

All of them.

mary rosenblum

It is NOT a closed shop, but certainly editors are business people...

mary rosenblum

and they will not do you any favors. If your story or article proposal...

mary rosenblum

is no better than one from a professional who has paid his/her dues...they'll take the pro's.

mary rosenblum

They KNOW the pro will follow through. You are an untested quantity.

janecj333

Mary, can I be honest? The awful pile changes editors. It sours them towards writers in general and makes them inaccessible to the many good beginners. You have only to read an arrogant editor in the pages of The Writer magazine to know what I'm talking abt

mary rosenblum

Ah, Jane, but I bet I know many more editors than you do, and while you get a sour editor who writes a snotty...

mary rosenblum

piece in the Writer...that does not mean that it's the rule.

mary rosenblum

I don't know a single editor....and I'm talking multiple genres...who is not willing to snap up...

mary rosenblum

a promising beginner. BUT...

mary rosenblum

what it DOES mean is that they no longer off you a helping hand.

mary rosenblum

They do get bit.

mary rosenblum

And they stop.

mary rosenblum

They put in a very long work week, and quite a bit of unpaid time...

neo

Don't editors want reliable, dependable writers in stables? A NEW writer is neither of those.

mary rosenblum

Ah, of course, but if you show promise, neo, they're willing to give you a chance.

mary rosenblum

If you blow it...you don't turn in the piece on time, it's poorly done...

mary rosenblum

don't send that editor anything else any time soon.

mary rosenblum

We had a LR student recently who sold his Assignment Three, I believe it was, to Newsweek.

mary rosenblum

Unpublished.

mary rosenblum

No, it doesn't happen very often, but he offered the editor a story that editor REALLY wanted.

redwagonmaster

what is the hottest genre right now?

mary rosenblum

Write what you read, red...you won't do a really good job in any other genre.

marina

Can I send a first manuscript without clips even though the writer's guidelines aske for query letters only and clips?

mary rosenblum

Yes, Marina. It's harder to get a postive response, but if you send in a professional quality query...

mary rosenblum

and it's apropos to what the editor publishes, you can include a 'writing sample'.

mary rosenblum

I had a student that used the article itself as the writing sample.

mary rosenblum

It was often accepted and she did sell a couple of articles that way before she had clips.

mary rosenblum

Sometimes they'll reject it, but so? Remember...

mary rosenblum

a rejection doesn't mean 'never darken my door again' unless...

mary rosenblum

you are submitting soemthing that this magazine simply does not publish.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we’re talking about career and writing. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

curseofthe44

Mary, do you have any suggestions as to how to balance work (not in writing) and attempts at beginning a writing career? After a full day of work, typically my brain is ready to shut down by the time I get home.

mary rosenblum

Curse that has troubled many many aspiring writers in this universe, believe me.

mary rosenblum

Often it boils down to tough career choices...especially if you have a high paying job...

mary rosenblum

a family, you're getting nice health benefits and you are working a 50 hour week.

mary rosenblum

The lucky ones have a spouse that supports you and has healthcare!

mary rosenblum

Some of us ended up VERY poor for a long time...I went that route.

mary rosenblum

You really DO need a day job forever or at least for a considerable period of time...

mary rosenblum

and if you want writing to be your primary career, the day job needs to add to the well, not take from it.

mary rosenblum

And that is hard.

mary rosenblum

and doens't usually pay well.

mary rosenblum

Hi, all.

mary rosenblum

The LR website went down for a bit...

mary rosenblum

at least the chat room part.

mary rosenblum

Hopefully I'll get the whole thing in the transcript afterward.

snapdragon

I want to write F, but I read NF, should I write NF?

mary rosenblum

If you want to write fiction, by all means work on writing it...

mary rosenblum

and realize you'll probably need to learn to do it well, just like everybody else.

mary rosenblum

If you never read it, that will be harder for you is all.

mary rosenblum

I would not expect to sit down, write one story, and sell it to a top market.

mary rosenblum

Might happen. But not real likely.

geezer

Experienced writers retire, etc. and must be replaced. The replacements might as well be us.

mary rosenblum

Exactly, geeze...and remember...editors are looking for the next hot new writer.

mary rosenblum

they leave room for those stories.

neo

Developing a writing career entails much more than the writing, doesn't it? Professional writers need to know about elements like agents, taxes, inspiration, research, etc.

mary rosenblum

Yes, it does, and you'll come to that as you do more.

mary rosenblum

The best shortcut there is networking.

mary rosenblum

Join whatever professional organization you are entitled to join.

mary rosenblum

Many of them while they require a degree of publication for admittance...

mary rosenblum

will accept unpublished writers as 'associate members'...

mary rosenblum

and you often get access to the newsletter.

mary rosenblum

Once you are publishing, you face different choices and different dilemmas...

mary rosenblum

about where to submit your work, what projects to spend your time on, and the like.

mary rosenblum

If your primary career is writer, you do need an accountant who is familiar...w

mary rosenblum

with what the IRS will and will not accept in terms of deductions.

mary rosenblum

And of course, if you write novels, you'll end up getting an agent at some point unless you publish only in small press.

geezer

What do the associations consider a published writer?

mary rosenblum

depends on the professional organization, geeze.

mary rosenblum

As I recall, SFWA still wants three publications by a major paying market of any length.

mary rosenblum

MWA used to require a novel publication, but I think they're accepting short fiction publications now...can't recall.

mary rosenblum

RWA...Romance Writers of America takes unpublished members.

mary rosenblum

(MWA = Mystery Writers of America)

mary rosenblum

I think the Horror Writers require publication of some sort, but I'm not sure.

papercut

what is a great YA forum for shorts NF

mary rosenblum

You'll have to research that, paper.

mary rosenblum

There are lots of market guides out there.

mary rosenblum

LR publishes a couple for childrens' markets. They should help.

redwagonmaster

is there a website where the markets are listed as they are in the book form

mary rosenblum

Tons. Google market list

mary rosenblum

or rather writers market lists

mary rosenblum

word combinations like that.

kungfumama

regarding day jobs - I found that getting up even a 1/2 hour earlier just to write helped loads.

mary rosenblum

Good for you, Kung.

mary rosenblum

The best thing you can do is make writing occupy an habitual space.

mary rosenblum

Might be early in the AM. Late at night.

mary rosenblum

Lunch break.

mary rosenblum

Weekends.

mary rosenblum

Whatever you can make work with your day job.

kater

if you cant get into a writing class is it possible to learn well on your own?

mary rosenblum

Sure kater.

mary rosenblum

come here, for one thing. :-)

mary rosenblum

Read what others write and analyze HOW they made it work.

mary rosenblum

If you can swap critiques with another aspiring writer that will really help.

mary rosenblum

courses and professional workshops only shortcut the process...

mary rosenblum

you can get there on your own...they just help it happen faster.

marina

Is there a personal essay WA? ;-)

mary rosenblum

There's a professional association for freelance nonfiction people, marina...

mary rosenblum

but you have to prove that you make something like 70% of your ...

mary rosenblum

income from freelancing to belong.

snapdragon

my F writing?

mary rosenblum

It'll help you if you get input, snap, since you're not a fiction reader.

mary rosenblum

What seems 'right' to you from reading nonfiction may not work in a fiction story.

mary rosenblum

I have had quite a few nonfiction writer students.

mary rosenblum

Generally their early work is very stilted...they are writing in a different form.

mary rosenblum

But once they master some of the techniques of fiction writing, they proceed very quickly.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we’re talking about career and writing. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

ling630

For a epilepsy story for young adults or children is it better to have pictures with the story in order for it to be accepted and published or can I get away with a story for young adult or children with just words and a couple of pictures? What is the best approach when submitting?

mary rosenblum

If it's a nonfiction piece, you can offer photos to the editor with your query...that editor may or may not want 'em.

mary rosenblum

YOu don't submit art or photos with fiction.

mary rosenblum

You can offer, but that's up to the art department...not much fiction is illustrated.

tolkienlvr

Mary, any tips for writers interested in writing in 2 genres as you have done? Do editors seem wary of such folk? Do they prefer writers to pick a genre and stick with it?

mary rosenblum

That's a good point, tolkien.

mary rosenblum

It's a very good idea to write in more than one genre if you want to ...e

mary rosenblum

earn a significant portion of your income from writing. :-)

mary rosenblum

If you have a well established name in one genre, that will count in your favor with the editor of the other genre...

mary rosenblum

but if you don't, you want to do two genres from the get-go...

mary rosenblum

I wouldn't mention it. :-)

snapdragon

listening instead of reading F, will this help my F writing?

mary rosenblum

Should, snap.

mary rosenblum

The main difference between ficiton and nf is how you handle dramatic arc, characterization, dialogue and so forth.

kems

Do you use the same author name when writing in 2 genres?

mary rosenblum

I didn't, but I could have. It's hardly a secret and most of my fans..

mary rosenblum

know that if it's freeman it's mystery and if it's rosenblum it's SF and I"m the both people.

trainer

If your work gets accepted by an editor and they publish your work but don't credit your name in print. Can you still use those publications as clips, or is it best not to?

mary rosenblum

Sure if you really did that piece, trainer! :-)

mary rosenblum

If the editor wants to make sure, he'll call the editor of that publication and ask.

redwagonmaster

If its not requested, should you send a SASE with queries, stories, etc? Sorry, but Im so new at this.

mary rosenblum

REd you must ALWAYS send a SASE with any by mail publication unless...

mary rosenblum

they tell you NOT to.

mary rosenblum

The usual practice is to dump any submission without a SASE into the trash can unread.

mary rosenblum

This is the Tuesday Forum with me Mary Rosenblum LR Web Editor, fiction and nonfiction writer and we’re talking about career and writing. If you’re new here, remember that you need to click on the Ask a Question button or the word bubble next to the red question mark at the top of the screen, or use the ask a question icon in order to ask a question. Your regular send bar won’t reach me! You can also type /ask in front of your question in your regular send bar to reach me.

redwagonmaster

I only find one LR course for writing, are there more? NF adult courses...that is.

mary rosenblum

There are two adult fiction and/or nonfiction courses, red.

mary rosenblum

Breaking into Print is 12 assignments and you work on ending up with two submittable pieces.

mary rosenblum

There's a shorter version, too. You don't end up doing nearly as much.

snapdragon

inputting dialogue is my struggle and i'm working on it.

mary rosenblum

It's hard, snap.

mary rosenblum

You'll find a couple of good articles on it on the website.

mary rosenblum

Try Craft and Characterization in Writing Craft.

ling630

What about contests without sase? Do they dump them too?

mary rosenblum

depends on the contest, ling.

mary rosenblum

Many of them don't return the submissions.

mary rosenblum

Of course you ALL read the submission instructions carefully before you submit to ANY publisher or contest, right?

mary rosenblum

RIGHT????

ling630

So they will read the story if it doesn't ask for sase?

mary rosenblum

If they TELL you not to include a SASE they'll read it.

mary rosenblum

They should make it clear if they want one or not.

mary rosenblum

Many do not return ms...it's a lot of work.

kungfumama

okay, dumb question of the day. What will an association do for you?

mary rosenblum

It's hardly a dumb questions, kung. Those associations are not cheap!

mary rosenblum

They're often over 100 bucks in dues!

mary rosenblum

What they can do for you, depending on the organization, is give you opportunities to network...

mary rosenblum

offer inside information on publishing changes within that genre (the edtior you were going to send your novel to...

mary rosenblum

has just left to work for another publishing house)...

mary rosenblum

and can offer markets that don''t show up in the regular lists...anthology openings, for example...and dates/locations...

mary rosenblum

of conferences or conventions.

geezer

Don't some offer benifit packages?

mary rosenblum

Yes, MWA offers health insurance. Some of the others, do, too.

mary rosenblum

They often offer financial aid to members in crisis or legal assistance when needed.

mary rosenblum

And they often have a policing organization for copyright disputes.

mary rosenblum

SFWA has shut down several websites that were selling fiction without having acquired rights from the authors.

mary rosenblum

SFWA maintains a 'writers beware' list of bad publishers/agents/packagers.

redwagonmaster

First Rights, can you explain that a bit, okay 2nd dumb question of the day.

mary rosenblum

Ah, that's hardly a dumb question either, red...rights are VERY confusing...

mary rosenblum

and you can get bit very easily.

mary rosenblum

You OWN your copyright unless you sell it entirely...ie sell 'all rights'.

mary rosenblum

What you sell to a publisher is the right to publish your story in a very limited and particular way.

mary rosenblum

I've made quite a bit of money this year in reprints...stories that have been republished...

mary rosenblum

in various antholiogies.

mary rosenblum

I have sold 'anthology rights'.

mary rosenblum

I had already sold 'first rights' to various magazine or anthology publishers.

mary rosenblum

First rights means the right to publish a work FIRST in the US, Northamerica, or the world, or europe...

mary rosenblum

your contract will define the 'where'.

mary rosenblum

You can sell 'first British rights' and 'first North American rights' to different publishers on different continents.

mary rosenblum

But once you have sold those first rights you can't resell them...

mary rosenblum

only one 'first NA rights'.

mary rosenblum

Only one 'first British rights'.

mary rosenblum

Publishers do buy reprint rights but they don't pay nearly as much.

kems

If a publisher has all rights, does this mean I can't use...

kems

a short story as part of a novel later?

mary rosenblum

Well, kems you'd have to check with a publishing lawyer about that...

mary rosenblum

but I'm inclined to say that you could not use it in the same form.

mary rosenblum

You'd have to change it substantially.

mary rosenblum

If you sell 'all rights' you have sold your copyright and those are not your words any more.

mary rosenblum

It is not a good thing to do if you think you'll use that piece later on in some way.

redwagonmaster

is there a website explaining these Rights?

mary rosenblum

This one, red.

mary rosenblum

Try 'Writing Craft: Business Side of Writing'.

mary rosenblum

If you're just starting out, you should check 'writing Craft'.

mary rosenblum

You'll find a lot of basic articles there.

info

trying for dumb question 3 here, but speaking of rights, in movie rights, you can stipulate like in novel rights to have rights in some degree for movies of your novel can't you

mary rosenblum

You really really need to keep your movie rights, info.

mary rosenblum

When you sell novel rights, publishers will often include' movie rights' in what they purchase...

mary rosenblum

and you just cross that out.

redwagonmaster

can you sell a story, then resell same story with different pen name? after rights are expired?

mary rosenblum

After you're regained the right, red, why use a pen name?

mary rosenblum

Some of my stories have been published four or five times.

curseofthe44

If I sign a contract for an "on spec" piece and say a year passes and the piece still has not been published, can I withdraw my piece from the magazine?

mary rosenblum

YOu need to write that into your contract, curse.

mary rosenblum

Big publishers usually have a 'kill fee' provision. If they don't use the story/article, they pay part of the originally agreed upon fee.

mary rosenblum

But if you want an 'expiration date' on that piece, be sure it's in your contract.

ling630

so each place is a different first rights then?

mary rosenblum

You have first rights on every piece you write, ling.

marina

when do first NA rights usually expire?

mary rosenblum

that's also in your contract. Most of mine extend to six months after publication.

mary rosenblum

A couple of markets I sell to hold onto them for a year.

mary rosenblum

A year after publication...

mary rosenblum

and once in awhile I'm supposed to ask for the rights back in writing...

mary rosenblum

that's typical of book publishers.

mary rosenblum

Usually, you regain the rights when the book goes out of print...

mary rosenblum

but you usually have to request those rights in writing.

curseofthe44

What if there are no expiration dates or kill fees mentioned in the contract for "on Spec?" I don't think I have a clear understanding of what "on spec" means.

mary rosenblum

On spec just means they pay you when they use the piece, curse.

mary rosenblum

If you didn't specify a 'kill date' and they haven't paid you for the piece...

mary rosenblum

you can just write to them and tell them that you'd like to withdraw it...

mary rosenblum

if they're not going to publish it by a certain date.

mary rosenblum

Be polite and they'll probably either use it or release it with no hard feelings.

redwagonmaster

after theyve held your piece, and it expires, do they notify you , or are you supposed to stay on top of that yourself?

mary rosenblum

Ah, that's YOUR job, red. :-)

kems

so after the 6m(ei) you can sell them as first right again?

mary rosenblum

No, kems...you can only sell first rights once.

mary rosenblum

That's why a contest that publishes the winners is problematical.

mary rosenblum

You can sell second rights, anthology rights...

geezer

Back to the kill fee. They pay you half the price, then you are free to pedal the piece elsewhere?

mary rosenblum

Yes, but they only pay you a kill fee if it is written into your contract. :-)

mary rosenblum

YOu need to read your contract, folks.

mary rosenblum

And not all publishers offer kill fees.

mary rosenblum

Certainly not the small circulation publishers...or not often.

ling630

I mean British rights is different than North American rights so I would have first rights to both places for the same article?

mary rosenblum

You would for first NA rights and first British rights.

mary rosenblum

You would not for First World Rights...

mary rosenblum

the world includes Britain. :-)

kems

can you sell 2nd rights before 1st right contract expires?

mary rosenblum

Dep[ends, kems.

mary rosenblum

If your first rights contracts states that you can't republish the piece for six months after...

mary rosenblum

that story comes out in print, and it will, say, be published in the December 06 issue...

mary rosenblum

that means you cannot republish it until June of 07.

mary rosenblum

Now if you sell those second rights right now...

mary rosenblum

to an anthology that will be out in early 07, say January...

mary rosenblum

this could be a problem.

mary rosenblum

You could write to the editor and ask for permission and if the issue...

mary rosenblum

with your story in it was on the stands say in November...

mary rosenblum

that editor might grant you permission to do it.

mary rosenblum

I have to really keep this in mind.

mary rosenblum

I often sell second rights before the story has been published!

mary rosenblum

I have to really keep an eye on publication dates, believe me.

marina

Can we really, really not submit smultaneously?

mary rosenblum

Well, it's up to you.

mary rosenblum

Editors DO take a very long time to get back to you.

mary rosenblum

BUT...if that editor says 'yes', he/she has probably reserved space for your story in an upcoming issue...

mary rosenblum

and if you tell that editor that you sold it elsewhere, and that magazine has a no sim. submission policy...

mary rosenblum

you have just seriously annoyed that editor...

mary rosenblum

and you might have to work REALLY hard to sell to him/her again.

mary rosenblum

Will it end your career? No.

mary rosenblum

But it might cost you embarassment and some career damage.

curseofthe44

Do they have the right to keep it as long as they want?

mary rosenblum

If you haven't specified any limits, yep, curse.

mary rosenblum

But you CAN write and ask 'em to release it.

mary rosenblum

usually magazines publish your work within two years.

redwagonmaster

do second rights bring less money than first rights, or is it just up to who you sell to?

mary rosenblum

Yes, they nearly always pay less..

mary rosenblum

unless you sold first rights to a small circulation mag and the anthology...

mary rosenblum

that picks them up pays a lot.

redwagonmaster

so when you send a query, should you describe the time limit you desire? or not

mary rosenblum

No red.

mary rosenblum

You have nothing to bargain with.

mary rosenblum

If you get a contract, you can negotiate the details...

mary rosenblum

but it's a bad move to start demanding special conditions before the editor ...

mary rosenblum

has even read yoru story unless you have a BIG name.

marina

waht about if the second rights are in a foreign language and country?

mary rosenblum

Same as any other place, marina. I sell a lot of novels to other countries.

mary rosenblum

They buy foreign language rights, usually.

mary rosenblum

That's for books.

mary rosenblum

You get a check in an interesting currency, LOL.

ling630

can they say not to releasing it? and pay only kill fee then

mary rosenblum

Kill fee is only if it's in the contract and if they pay, they ARE releasing it.

mary rosenblum

It's yours again.

mary rosenblum

They can release it with no fee if it's not specified.

curseofthe44

Can you write a story and sell it, then later do a rewrite of the same story and sell it somewhere else?

mary rosenblum

Second rights, curse. Unless it is substantially different..

kems

Can you list some markets other than NA and British please?

mary rosenblum

Every country in the world, kems.

mary rosenblum

I've sold in Poland, Finland, Germany, France, Russia...

mary rosenblum

WE're going to have to end.

mary rosenblum

I think the website is about to go down again.

mary rosenblum

I

mary rosenblum

I think we're just about to crash.

mary rosenblum

We'll talk about markets and rights in anothe Forum!

curseofthe44

What do you mean by "substantially different?" What if it is changed from a non-fiction to fiction with minor detail changes?

mary rosenblum

Nonfiction to fiction is substantial, curse. :-)

ling630

have you sold in Canada?

mary rosenblum

I'm published in Canada... I publish with big publishers who distribute to Canada...

mary rosenblum

can't recall if I"m published by a Canadian house...could be.

kems

and how long would you recommend for the kill fee?

mary rosenblum

If a publisher doesn't offer a kill fee, you probably shoul d not ask for one..

mary rosenblum

kems as an unpublished writer.

mary rosenblum

you can specify a 'use by' date and request the return of the piece after that if you want.

mary rosenblum

But...would you rather have the piece back or have it published in this mag?

mary rosenblum

You need to give most magazines a good two years, anyway.

mary rosenblum

Feel free to bring more questions to our casual chat tomorrow.

mary rosenblum

This 'Oregon Hour' has realllly stretched today.

mary rosenblum

But you all had good questions.

mary rosenblum

Hopefully the transcript survived the gremlims.

mary rosenblum

See you tomorrow!

 

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